Speeches by Hatton.

“What I am finding difficult to get my head around is the fact that in recent years HMRC has actually been given a number of additional powers. We have already discussed the fact that the special measures regime introduced in 2016 has never been used. HMRC has only once taken action to prevent the facilitation of tax ev…”

“Thank you for that extra detail. The point I was making is that when you have big sums of money at stake and long-running tax disputes that are very much in the public domain, as the Glencore one is, it is worrying when we see no end in sight to these investigations, which have been going on since I had a full head of …”

“Do you think you have got a grip on it? Does the current way of working mean that we do not have large, often multinational companies able to artificially divert their profits, so that HMRC is not able to collect the amount of tax that it otherwise would?”

“Okay, so if I was to write, you would be happy to write a private response to the Committee, but you are not happy to speak publicly to the Committee today.”

“If the deterrent has been effective, are no concerns or alarm bells raised with you by the corporation tax gap not actually decreasing in absolute monetary terms since this regime came into effect? If you look between 2021 and today, that gap has gone up by some £2 billion. Also—I mentioned this earlier—we have a very …”

“I suppose what I am finding a little difficult to understand is that you said it is a very small number, but obviously a number of them are engaging in such egregious behaviour. If a small number is there—probably the sums of tax at stake that could be owed are significant—why has this special regime never been used, e…”

“Will someone come back on that case now, to provide some reassurance to the Committee?”

“I am aware. I suppose it would be helpful for the whole Committee if you can reassure us that you have a strong enough body of evidence that supports such limited use of these powers. How can you reassure us that the body of evidence is sufficiently robust that you can say, “We have never, or rarely, used these powers,…”

“I will try not to stray too much, Chair, but it would be useful to know this. A great deal is in the public domain—tax groups such as TaxWatch have put a lot of information into the public domain—in relation to the GE case that I mentioned. Is there nothing you can say in front of the Committee today, in relation to wh…”

“Permanent secretary, my frustration—others on the Committee may share it—is that if we see very limited or non-existent use of the actual criminal proceedings that you can take forward, and then sitting alongside that, we see what I would describe as a limited understanding of the number of civil investigations that yo…”

“Do you think that not having that information creates some gaps within HMRC’s thinking? You cannot really have a full understanding of the scale of potential tax fraud within these 2,000 large businesses if you do not have an effective way of measuring how many civil investigations you have even opened or processed.”

“I would like to spend a little of time on how we ensure that HMRC works in a way that most people would believe to be fair and consistent. I know that HMRC has reassured us repeatedly in recent years, in the public domain, that the era of sweetheart deals is over, and I believe that the NAO Report reflects that, but co…”

“Okay. Moving on, one of HMRC’s biggest ongoing tax disputes—again, this is all in the public domain—is with the UK oil giant Glencore. I believe there is a 15-year-long tax dispute between Glencore and HMRC, with around £1.5 billion at stake in terms of potentially owed tax. Again, that is in the public domain. I am ke…”

“Will the increased investment in resource help to deal with the growing bit of HMRC’s work, which is the tax under consideration? We have seen that ratchet up for large business tax disputes, and it is continuing to increase. It is increasing above inflation; we think it is a little over £70 billion now. Can we expect …”

“That is helpful. Having discussed the use—or lack of use, in some cases—of criminal enforcement powers by HMRC, I would like to briefly touch on civil investigations of tax fraud. Could you tell us how many civil investigations into fraud you have completed in large businesses?”

“Just to be clear, does that information not exist? Do HMRC not know?”

“I suppose what is slightly odd there is that a huge amount is already in the public domain in relation to the tax dispute between Glencore and HMRC, largely because of a number of associated court cases. Given that such a significant amount of money is being considered, and that the dispute has been going on for such a…”

“My hon. Friend is speaking wisely of the time when Boris Johnson was before the Privileges Committee. Does he believe the House should remember that that Prime Minister lost an anti-corruption champion, who resigned over the issue? Conservative Members would be well placed to remember what happened when the Privileges …”

“6. What steps her Department is taking to fund sports facilities in secondary schools in South Dorset constituency.”

“Budmouth academy has received a record multimillion-pound investment from this Labour Government to rebuild many of the school’s buildings. However, its crumbling outdoor courts—which are home to the South and West Dorset netball league—are currently not included in the rebuild. More than 300 women and girls are part o…”