Speeches by Hatton.

“According to recent media reports, the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) has taken a £5 million gift from a billionaire living halfway across the world. Without the Guardian investigation, however, we would be none the wiser, and there are no controls on gifts for those campaigning before a general election is cal…”

“The hon. Gentleman is right to point out the devastating record of the Conservatives, but does he share my sadness and frustration at the role played by the Liberal Democrats in hollowing out the size of our armed forces and waving through Budget after Budget that cut defence spending in this country? Will he own up to…”

“Q3. I welcome the steps taken to clean up British politics via the landmark elections Bill—the Representation of the People Bill—but we must go further. If I had received a £5 million gift from a billionaire living halfway across the world and had not come clean about what that money was for, my constituents would be f…”

“Will someone come back on that case now, to provide some reassurance to the Committee?”

“Permanent secretary, my frustration—others on the Committee may share it—is that if we see very limited or non-existent use of the actual criminal proceedings that you can take forward, and then sitting alongside that, we see what I would describe as a limited understanding of the number of civil investigations that yo…”

“Do you think that not having that information creates some gaps within HMRC’s thinking? You cannot really have a full understanding of the scale of potential tax fraud within these 2,000 large businesses if you do not have an effective way of measuring how many civil investigations you have even opened or processed.”

“What I am finding difficult to get my head around is the fact that in recent years HMRC has actually been given a number of additional powers. We have already discussed the fact that the special measures regime introduced in 2016 has never been used. HMRC has only once taken action to prevent the facilitation of tax ev…”

“Okay, so if I was to write, you would be happy to write a private response to the Committee, but you are not happy to speak publicly to the Committee today.”

“Will the increased investment in resource help to deal with the growing bit of HMRC’s work, which is the tax under consideration? We have seen that ratchet up for large business tax disputes, and it is continuing to increase. It is increasing above inflation; we think it is a little over £70 billion now. Can we expect …”

“If the deterrent has been effective, are no concerns or alarm bells raised with you by the corporation tax gap not actually decreasing in absolute monetary terms since this regime came into effect? If you look between 2021 and today, that gap has gone up by some £2 billion. Also—I mentioned this earlier—we have a very …”

“Where you do have that very small number, which officials here have already referred to, of particularly persistent aggressive tax planning, non-compliance or egregious behaviour—whatever we want to call it—are you confident, and can you reassure this Committee, that even in those cases, where big sums of potential pub…”

“I am aware. I suppose it would be helpful for the whole Committee if you can reassure us that you have a strong enough body of evidence that supports such limited use of these powers. How can you reassure us that the body of evidence is sufficiently robust that you can say, “We have never, or rarely, used these powers,…”

“That is helpful. Having discussed the use—or lack of use, in some cases—of criminal enforcement powers by HMRC, I would like to briefly touch on civil investigations of tax fraud. Could you tell us how many civil investigations into fraud you have completed in large businesses?”

“Just to be clear, does that information not exist? Do HMRC not know?”

“I suppose what I am finding a little difficult to understand is that you said it is a very small number, but obviously a number of them are engaging in such egregious behaviour. If a small number is there—probably the sums of tax at stake that could be owed are significant—why has this special regime never been used, e…”

“On that point, can you understand the public frustration that it has never once been use against a large business? I think the one case where it was introduced involved a small accountancy firm in Stockport, but it has not been deployed against any large business, and you have had plenty of time to get on with it. Can …”

“I would like to spend a little of time on how we ensure that HMRC works in a way that most people would believe to be fair and consistent. I know that HMRC has reassured us repeatedly in recent years, in the public domain, that the era of sweetheart deals is over, and I believe that the NAO Report reflects that, but co…”

“I will try not to stray too much, Chair, but it would be useful to know this. A great deal is in the public domain—tax groups such as TaxWatch have put a lot of information into the public domain—in relation to the GE case that I mentioned. Is there nothing you can say in front of the Committee today, in relation to wh…”

“Okay. Moving on, one of HMRC’s biggest ongoing tax disputes—again, this is all in the public domain—is with the UK oil giant Glencore. I believe there is a 15-year-long tax dispute between Glencore and HMRC, with around £1.5 billion at stake in terms of potentially owed tax. Again, that is in the public domain. I am ke…”

“I suppose what is slightly odd there is that a huge amount is already in the public domain in relation to the tax dispute between Glencore and HMRC, largely because of a number of associated court cases. Given that such a significant amount of money is being considered, and that the dispute has been going on for such a…”