Speeches by Robertson.

“I intended to intervene on the Minister to ask a question, but I am happy to pose it by way of a speech. She has indicated—in fact, she stated very clearly—that she wants to formally clarify in writing, but she is declining to formally clarify orally. Does she not accept that if we proceed to a vote on clause 3, she is…”

“This looks like another entirely reasonable amendment, which looks to mitigate some of the harsher provisions in the changes that will allow magistrates to give sentences of up to two years. A moment ago, I talked about the difference between the more rough and ready justice in the magistrates court and the more rigoro…”

“On their own terms, however, the Government have recently put in place measures to tackle the backlog, such as increasing sitting days and investment. We have not seen the extent to which those measures will be successful or not—I sincerely hope that they will be. The Government are presenting this Bill, with its measu…”

“The Minister talks about the statutory test for complexity, among other things. I cannot identify the statutory test for complexity. Where is the test in the new legislation?”

“I support the position of my hon. Friend the shadow Minister. There is a degree of cross-party support on the Opposition Benches; we heard some very good submissions from the hon. Member for Brighton Pavilion, which seems a while ago now. The Government’s position on many of the contentious issues in Committee has been…”

“Will the Minister give way?”

“I recognise evidence, but I give greatest weight to Sir Brian Leveson, the author of the independent report commissioned by the Government. As the hon. Lady knows very well, the youth court is a very different beast, because a different set of principles and rules applies to cross-examination, evidence and so on for pe…”

“The Government have said that this is a matter of thresholds and they have cited other democracies and other countries—indeed, other common-law countries that take their legal system from England and Wales. They have said, “If those countries can do without jury trials at this threshold, so can we.” I am not against ha…”

“I hope the hon. Member for Birmingham Erdington might consider pressing new clause 29 to a vote, because it is good and fair, and it deals with impact—it does not seek to change what the Government are trying to do. There is clearly a debate, and contested views, about the impact on those from minority ethnic backgroun…”

“We are talking about sentences up to and including three years, which is a long time. We often see bad cases in which unduly lenient sentences are passed, and in those terms three years is often described, when presented to the public, as a short time. Of course it is a short time if someone commits a horrendous offenc…”

“I wish to address a number of issues in relation to this grouping. First, I will say something about the figures that have been quoted at length today and in previous sittings. Secondly, I will say something about the reasons given by the Government for curtailing jury trials in this way. Then I want to go on to say so…”

“I support the amendment tabled by my hon. Friend the shadow Minister, which would ensure the right of appeal to a decision whether a trial should be heard by a jury. The Government’s reason for not accepting the amendment, as they have put forward on a number of previous amendments, is the principle of efficiency—that …”

“On the figures that are being presented, on the one hand, the Government say that only 3% of criminal trials go to a jury, so this is not a significant change to the criminal courts and jury system in this country. On the other hand, they say that this is so essential, and the situation that we find ourselves in is so …”

“It rather looks as though yet again we have a clause that, in the interests of trying to rush through legislation, has not been properly thought out. I cannot believe that the Government intend to introduce such vagueness into law. It is perfectly clear that they are trying to tackle the backlog—I do not criticise them…”

“The Minister said that she effectively, although not exclusively, considers the issue to be lengthy financial documents. If the provision were expanded across sexual offences and others in future, with powers that a theoretical future Secretary of State might want to apply, that untested, unclear issue of complexity wo…”

“Indeed, it is quite interesting that the Government’s benchmark is the previous Government. I do not recall them making that clear at the last election. I will leave it there.”

“The Government talk about a 20% time saving as a result of no longer using a jury in accordance with the Bill, but the reasons given for curtailing a jury trial are not the same as those that Sir Brian Leveson identified. The Government, and indeed Sir Brian Leveson, talk about jury trials taking longer than they used …”

“Amendment 51 seeks to curtail the extension of this clause. I have already spoken about how wide-ranging it is and the wide discretion that it gives judges in making allocation decisions with insufficient legal test, guidance or case law. At least let us leave that as the problem; let us not introduce the potential for…”

“The Government and Labour Back Benchers have spoken about the experience of victims and have said that part of the reason for cutting the backlog is to reduce stress on them. There is nothing in this clause to say that the judge might want to consider the impact on victims or complainants when deciding whether to alloc…”

“I agree with my hon. Friend. Indeed, the Bill will basically lead to a complete lottery in decision making, depending on the judge a person gets on the day. I suspect that judges ordinarily do not like vague law or having to provide their own interpretation. They are usually more comfortable if the statute is more prec…”