Speeches by Norman.

“You never know, based on this performance.”

“Will there be metrics by which we can start to see that happening next year?”

“Air Marshal, last week we saw a significant briefing in three different newspapers against CDS. Can you recall this ever happening to a serving commanding officer at a time of conflict?”

“So you might take the benefit in capability rather than in production?”

“So an awful lot of back-office change could deliver a quite meaningful reduction in numbers as well as a reduction in costs?”

“That is helpful. Thank you.”

“How many civil servants are there in your organisation, Rupert?”

“Pari passu, it would be 5,000, but—”

“It sounds like whistling in the wind by the Treasury, frankly. This does not feel like a real thing, because you have not been adequately consulted, and there is no scale on it. We will have to see.”

“How many civil service employees do you have at the moment?”

“That is nicely put. I am sure you will not want to respond to this, but could you give us some sense of numbers and workforce reduction? Presumably, there will be more people at higher pay, and fewer at lower because of the displacement effect—how is that going?”

“So the point is, this is really an “in principle” matter. You have not put any numbers around it yet. That is part of the next phase.”

“You could get a double.”

“Is it 0.1% additional demand? What level are we talking about?”

“That in and of itself ought to deliver a lot of what the permanent secretary is talking about.”

“Because its capabilities and processes start to displace legacy ones that are more—”

“Not military costs, and not non-civil service, non-military workforce costs—is there a non-civil service workforce? I am just trying to work out what you are cutting out.”

“It is just slightly odd, because if it is supplying demand alongside sovereign spend, it is astounding to me that it would not have had a closer relationship with your office—the National Armaments Director—because you are deciding how much kit needs to be provided and when, against a particular demand signal. It has n…”

“Just a final question, which is that the SDR talked about a commitment to reduce MoD civil service costs by a minimum of 10% by 2030, and to do so by using artificial intelligence and automation. Obviously, the drive for simplicity and accountability is enormously welcome, but can you give us a sense of how that is goi…”

“That would include a counter-drone capability, as well as drones.”