Speeches by Coleman.

“I talked about double running because, in meetings with Members of Parliament, Ministers at a very senior level in the Department of Health have said that they believe in double running. Are they perhaps being a little optimistic, given the situation in which we find ourselves?”

“Forgive me, but I guess I am pressing you on this because it is a particularly live issue. I am declaring my interest because in North West London, Andrew Lansley brought out a document, which I know you are familiar with, called “Shaping a Healthier Future”. It would have closed the A&E in Ealing hospital and Charing …”

“The place being what?”

“If the hospitals did not become more efficient, would you shift money from hospitals—cut hospitals’ funding—in favour of primary and community care anyway?”

“So you would make hospitals more efficient, save some money there, take that money and spend it in primary and community care. Is that right?”

“The same care in a hospital or in a primary situation?”

“That is interesting. I guess I was coming from a different place from where I have the impression that you are coming from. It was in terms of the potential for hospitals to do more in the community. However, as we move towards the focus being on community and primary care, that obviously needs funding. There is a lot …”

“Hospitals do, by and large, a brilliant job, but no one in the system is perfect. Hospitals do not have a direct incentive to keep people out of hospital, or to keep people supported by social care at home so that they can live independently and so that any hospital entry is delayed by, perhaps, a decade. How can we in…”

“Okay. I would like to come back to the relationship with the NHS and local authorities. Perhaps that would be a better way to enter that. I will pick up on this. You noted that I tried to probe a bit with Julian Kelly about hospitals. Prevention is what I would like to start by talking about. Prevention has been seen l…”

“I should begin by declaring that Dr Dash and I know each other. I had the pleasure of serving on the integrated care board for North West London while she was Chair, until I was elected.”

“She is still the chair. Maybe I am one of the vested interests you referred to, Penny. Would that be the case?”

“Thank you very much.”

“It is good to see your enthusiasm for that, and thank you for your praise for what is going on in North West London—it is very exciting. I am going to ask you a completely different last question. We have bombarded you with questions here; some have been tougher, and some have been easier. However, you and I have also …”

“That is a great question. How does NHS England take a role in that?”

“I have just a couple more things, but you will be glad that we are bouncing along. We are talking about getting enthusiastic, and growth is always a very exciting subject to talk about, because the country desperately needs it. It is also exciting to hear about the opportunity that the NHS can play in stimulating and e…”

“That is fair enough. You talked about growth but I am going to move on to something else, which is very interesting.”

“Do you think there might be some argument for taking it from local authorities?”

“But just to help inform that.”

“What do you think?”

“Do you think that the national care service, which is much discussed, should be left to local authorities or should it be run out of the Department of Health and Social Care?”