Speeches by Gardiner.

“Will Thames Water still be in existence to work with you on that, Mr Gorman? That was not a serious question. I will pass back to the Chair.”

“We are always glad to have an imprimatur for that.”

“I am sure you will provide us with further information on those aspects. The Environment Agency has recently given you regulation 61 notices on PFAS. How are you going to minimise PFAS at your airports? That applies to all airports, not just Heathrow.”

“When do you expect those tests to be completed?”

“If you were to encapsulate what you think this Committee should be saying, the carbon price, as it stands, is too low in order to enable the expansion that is been predicated. Too many flights are not included in it. Can you elaborate on that?”

“I want to pick up on the revenue certainty mechanism that you were talking about and also talk about the buyout mechanism. There is a buyout provision within what the Government have said to you, is there not? If you do not manage to secure an adequate supply of SAF, you can pay money instead. What are your estimates f…”

“I should not be flippant.”

“Mr Gorman, perhaps when you write to us with those stats, you could include what you are factoring in here. By 2040, you have to have 22% SAF in your fuel mix. It is going to be tough to get there. I accept what Mr Robinson was saying about the increase. It is an important industry. There is no doubt about it. It is im…”

“It is on the Government’s website at ACN0004. It is by Dr David Metz. It states that it is £62.29 billion against £28.358 billion. Those are 2019 figures.”

“I am sure.”

“For a start, that was not the New Economics Foundation. It was the Government’s chief scientific officer from the Department for Transport. That is the first point. It was not analysis from the New Economics Foundation. I asked him about it and he confirmed it. It was the Government’s own analysis that the net outflow …”

“At this rate, they will be able to stay here and enjoy them. That is what we are worried about.”

“Let me just bring you back to the question that I asked. Given that it was predicated on either there being a cap on all UK emissions or that there was a global emissions trading scheme for the sector, and neither of those is the case, do you not think we need to have a national policy statement that takes cognisance o…”

“Can I put to you something else? If you look at the plans around the three airports, Heathrow, Stansted and London City, the expansion of those airports would constitute a significant increase in carbon emissions. Given that we have looked at the net zero carbon road map that Sustainable Aviation has produced to underp…”

“Mr Gorman, I would agree with you that a trading system is better for the reasons that you have said, but it does not work terribly well when 59% of the permits are free. I wanted to check the hand signals that you were making. You said that expansion would lower the cost to the traveller and you agreed that an increas…”

“If we look at the Climate Change Committee’s graphics on this, it is very clear that the largest element—it is half and half, actually—of the reduction in carbon emissions has to come from demand management, and yet it does not appear in the Sustainable Aviation strategy whatsoever.”

“Confusing.”

“We do need to see that evidence. Could you write to the Committee setting out those figures, the extent to which you see the gain from expansion reducing ticket prices and how that aligns with the offset in the carbon price?”

“It is Government’s job. We are agreed. Perhaps you would say that it should be a recommendation of this Committee that the Government update the ANPS to take account of the global situation as it now is.”

“First of all, let me create some common ground. Heathrow has done particularly well in terms of the reduction in noise pollution and air pollution and the improvement in air quality around it over the past few years. Of course, these are at risk if there is expansion. How will airports ensure that any expansion deliver…”