Speeches by Gardiner.

“First of all, let me create some common ground. Heathrow has done particularly well in terms of the reduction in noise pollution and air pollution and the improvement in air quality around it over the past few years. Of course, these are at risk if there is expansion. How will airports ensure that any expansion deliver…”

“When do you expect those tests to be completed?”

“For a start, that was not the New Economics Foundation. It was the Government’s chief scientific officer from the Department for Transport. That is the first point. It was not analysis from the New Economics Foundation. I asked him about it and he confirmed it. It was the Government’s own analysis that the net outflow …”

“Let me just bring you back to the question that I asked. Given that it was predicated on either there being a cap on all UK emissions or that there was a global emissions trading scheme for the sector, and neither of those is the case, do you not think we need to have a national policy statement that takes cognisance o…”

“It is Government’s job. We are agreed. Perhaps you would say that it should be a recommendation of this Committee that the Government update the ANPS to take account of the global situation as it now is.”

“Will Thames Water still be in existence to work with you on that, Mr Gorman? That was not a serious question. I will pass back to the Chair.”

“They are getting a more generous allowance than the rest of the economy, which is only 38%, is it not?”

“Why do you think it is that the Sustainable Aviation road map for net zero does not include demand management as one of the factors?”

“If we look at the Climate Change Committee’s graphics on this, it is very clear that the largest element—it is half and half, actually—of the reduction in carbon emissions has to come from demand management, and yet it does not appear in the Sustainable Aviation strategy whatsoever.”

“The Climate Change Committee in the sixth carbon budget was very clear that demand management had to be part of that. It has modified that in the seventh carbon budget, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the form of demand management and how pricing, and obviously carbon pricing, can play a role in that.”

“Can I put to you something else? If you look at the plans around the three airports, Heathrow, Stansted and London City, the expansion of those airports would constitute a significant increase in carbon emissions. Given that we have looked at the net zero carbon road map that Sustainable Aviation has produced to underp…”

“We are not part of it yet, are we?”

“To be clear on that, it is seeking to introduce an additional tax on the growth that there is in the sector beyond 85% of the level in 2019.”

“Basically, we have price signals that are too weak to achieve the objectives that the Government are looking to put in place.”

“Mr Gorman, I would agree with you that a trading system is better for the reasons that you have said, but it does not work terribly well when 59% of the permits are free. I wanted to check the hand signals that you were making. You said that expansion would lower the cost to the traveller and you agreed that an increas…”

“They are getting a more generous allowance than the rest of the economy, which is only 38%, is it not?”

“If you were to encapsulate what you think this Committee should be saying, the carbon price, as it stands, is too low in order to enable the expansion that is been predicated. Too many flights are not included in it. Can you elaborate on that?”

“I was fascinated by what you said about those medium‑haul flights and the impact of them.”

“We do need to see that evidence. Could you write to the Committee setting out those figures, the extent to which you see the gain from expansion reducing ticket prices and how that aligns with the offset in the carbon price?”

“I want to get your thoughts on CORSIA, the integration of that with the emissions trading scheme and whether that will give us a sufficient level of carbon price to proceed.”