Speeches by Gardiner.

“Can I put to you something else? If you look at the plans around the three airports, Heathrow, Stansted and London City, the expansion of those airports would constitute a significant increase in carbon emissions. Given that we have looked at the net zero carbon road map that Sustainable Aviation has produced to underp…”

“I want to get your thoughts on CORSIA, the integration of that with the emissions trading scheme and whether that will give us a sufficient level of carbon price to proceed.”

“We are not part of it yet, are we?”

“They are getting a more generous allowance than the rest of the economy, which is only 38%, is it not?”

“To be clear on that, it is seeking to introduce an additional tax on the growth that there is in the sector beyond 85% of the level in 2019.”

“Basically, we have price signals that are too weak to achieve the objectives that the Government are looking to put in place.”

“Mr Gorman, I would agree with you that a trading system is better for the reasons that you have said, but it does not work terribly well when 59% of the permits are free. I wanted to check the hand signals that you were making. You said that expansion would lower the cost to the traveller and you agreed that an increas…”

“At the moment, the free allowances to polluters that were introduced in 2023 give the airline sector 59% of its ETS emissions for free, do they not?”

“I want to continue the theme of carbon pricing. Before we do, could I clarify, Dr Chapman, this business of more passengers traveling overseas than coming in? The Committee has received evidence from Dr David Metz, who used to be the chief scientist at the Department for Transport. That said that UK visitors going abro…”

“I wanted to clarify that. In effect, expansion is a net drain, in that sense, on the economy. If we can turn back to the whole issue of the carbon price, remind me what the jet zero strategy assumed the carbon price would be by last year.”

“First of all, let me create some common ground. Heathrow has done particularly well in terms of the reduction in noise pollution and air pollution and the improvement in air quality around it over the past few years. Of course, these are at risk if there is expansion. How will airports ensure that any expansion deliver…”

“It was £82, I think.”

“Let me just bring you back to the question that I asked. Given that it was predicated on either there being a cap on all UK emissions or that there was a global emissions trading scheme for the sector, and neither of those is the case, do you not think we need to have a national policy statement that takes cognisance o…”

“It is Government’s job. We are agreed. Perhaps you would say that it should be a recommendation of this Committee that the Government update the ANPS to take account of the global situation as it now is.”

“We are always glad to have an imprimatur for that.”

“Where do we need to get to, in accordance with the jet zero strategy, by 2030?”

“When do you expect those tests to be completed?”

“Will Thames Water still be in existence to work with you on that, Mr Gorman? That was not a serious question. I will pass back to the Chair.”

“I want to pick up on the revenue certainty mechanism that you were talking about and also talk about the buyout mechanism. There is a buyout provision within what the Government have said to you, is there not? If you do not manage to secure an adequate supply of SAF, you can pay money instead. What are your estimates f…”

“What is the problem? Why is the current price so low? What are the factors that are making it impossible for us to do the offsetting in the way that we would want?”