Speeches by Logan.

“Q My supplementary to that comes in the light of the earlier point by the hon. Member for Wells and Mendip Hills about the number of failings at an organisational level over the years, and there have been many. You have described various mechanisms within the police, but do you think there might be a need for something…”

“Q We have not met before, but may I call you Cindy? Cindy Butts: Yes, please do.”

“Q Thank you. Thank you for your very extensive evidence, which is very impressive from someone who has been in post for just two months. However, I wanted to ask you about your previous experience—we got little CVs for the witnesses—as a commissioner at the Independent Police Complaints Commission, and in the transform…”

“Q Well, you have got the duty of candour, the code of ethics, the code of conduct and the new offences. Do you feel that that represents a challenge for large public organisations? Cindy Butts: I think it will present a challenge for them, because it is very different from what we have now and indeed from what has ever…”

“Q And you know all about cultural change, following the Stephen Lawrence inquiry— Cindy Butts: I do, and it is part of the reason why, in my submission, I spoke to the issue of exceptional circumstances, because, of course, my role comes into play following a major tragedy, such as Hillsborough, or the Manchester Arena…”

“Q I should declare that I worked in the health service for 33 years—not all politicians are political careerists. You are all very senior people, and obviously very experienced, but I want to get behind the corporate and ask for your personal opinions, based on your experience. My colleague drew attention to the fact t…”

“Q How would we do that? Dr Chopra: Going back to what I was saying about our role as a regulator, I have focused on where we have taken enforcement powers where we have seen things that have not worked, but I think we could also do the opposite. As a regulator, we could be talking about those areas that we see as outst…”

“Q Ron, it says in our brief that in 2006, you predicted the impending sub-prime/collateralised debt obligation crisis. Should I sell everything? I am only kidding. Ron Warmington: I do think that everything is hyped, but luckily, I was in Burbank looking at a business that did that, and it was the worst business—at tha…”

“Q What I wanted to ask you about seriously was culture change, because that is what a lot of the Bill is about—about how we ensure that Hillsborough or the infected blood scandal never happen again. How do we achieve that culture change? What are your opinions on that? Ron Warmington: I have been in this situation in b…”

“Not at all—I thought it was a good answer. Flora Page: It is about incentives, isn’t it? The incentives have to be aligned for folk to do the right thing. Ron Warmington: Yes, we have to get people to make the right decision. They will not do it just because it is the right thing to do. Some people will—even though it …”

“Q Daniel, are you familiar with the proposals from Hillsborough Law Now? Daniel De Simone: I have read their submissions.”

“Do you agree with them? Daniel De Simone: I am not really here to speak on behalf of the BBC about command response or anything else but, as you heard from what I said about MI5, where responsibility can be taken by individuals, that is better than it falling on organisations, because organisations are more slippery an…”

“Q Would you accept that there might be circumstances in which the head of a particular intelligence organisation might need a safe place to be able to reveal sensitive information? Daniel De Simone: Absolutely, and that is why we have closed material procedures within the courts. Parliament’s Intelligence and Security …”

“Q With all that said, do you think the reach of the Official Secrets Act might go a little too far in some circumstances? Daniel De Simone: In what way?”

“It is hard to describe a particular example, but in a way that might prevent a whistleblower from taking necessary action. Daniel De Simone: I think so, yes. Journalists have been arrested under the Official Secrets Act. I am a journalist who has worked in the area of security and matters to do with terrorism, so I am …”

“So you are aware of the proposals regarding command responsibility? Daniel De Simone: Yes.”

“Q This question is for Mr Guest. For a member of the public like me, could you draw out the difference between what you would regard legally as “seriously improper” conduct and simply improper conduct? What I am trying to get at are examples such as someone who does not draw attention to a computer program that is clea…”

“Q Chief Constable, I want to follow up on some of the points you made about training. First, this is groundbreaking legislation; we are seeking to achieve a massive culture change, and there will be a code of ethics and a code of conduct. Do you foresee the possibility of additional training requirements for senior and…”

“Q Thank you for your evidence so far, Mr Weatherby. Notwithstanding the force of the command responsibility amendment that you have told us about, would you see an additional or bolstering role for the Intelligence and Security Committee of the UK Parliament, in addition to the recommendations that you are making? Pete…”

“Q I, too, salute your courage in your fight over many years to get to this point. The Bill is a landmark and will be something really good coming out of such a terrible tragedy, but it does not cover everything. We heard before lunch about things that other witnesses might like to see addressed. Hilda, is there anythin…”