Speeches by Sackman.

“Just to complete that point, that is not the only source of inefficiency. We heard from the previous panel that a major constraint and source of inefficiency is lost time and lost sitting days due to the lack of availability in the workforce. That is a major driver, which is why that has been an area of focus for the G…”

“As I said in an earlier answer, I do not say—and I do not need to say—that jury trials per se are the primary driver of delay. But within that structure, if you take equivalent cases that could be tried either way—that is the easiest comparator—so they could be addressed in the magistrates court before a district judge…”

“It does to some extent, and I will bring in Amy here.”

“Chris, you have been responsible for developing the modelling that parliamentarians will see. I wonder if it is worth you explaining that that is based on historical data from actual individual cases. Obviously people will want to unpack that when they see the modelling.”

“Sir Ashley is no longer here, but I have been very clear in how we have directed officials not to overclaim for the modelling. I do not want to overclaim for the modelling. We need the modelling, because it is what tells us whether this is going to work or not. I am very concerned with that, because that is why we are …”

“It would be great if it did, but I would rather that we present a conservative estimate of what we can achieve, than that we guess and hope for the best and that all of a sudden, because one no longer has the right to elect, that is going to generate loads of early guilty pleas because that suits my case. I am not goin…”

“I will endeavour to keep my answers short.”

“That is not an assumption that we have made, although when it comes to—”

“No.”

“Chris will correct me if I am wrong, but that is not something that we have factored into the modelling. It might be part of the time saving that is realised. For example, going back to the previous question, it is possible to imagine that in a world where, as here, we pick up on the IRCC’s recommendation to move to ju…”

“Indeed it could.”

“You are right to draw attention to disproportionality and racial disparity right across the criminal justice system. When I set out plans for comprehensive reform of the criminal justice system, it is one of the areas that I think we should be looking for every opportunity to address. It is not just in courts, of cours…”

“I think giving reasons, not just in judicial decision making but in public decision making—having to justify why you have reached the conclusion or decision you have reached, albeit that people may not like the decision—is a really important component of open justice and transparency. Of course, it is also open to chal…”

“I absolutely take that point. I suppose my contention is that the trial they receive in the CCBD, as with the trial they would receive in a magistrates court or before a jury, should be fair regardless, and it can be fair under the CCBD. What we want to do is look at fairness right across the criminal justice system.”

“That is why he suggested it, and it is set out in his report. I was pleased to hear the speaker from the Magistrates’ Association say on the earlier panel that these proposals, taken as a whole, are a vote of confidence in our magistracy. You are right: our magistrates provide that lay element and connection to local j…”

“We looked at the modelling of the impact of the IRCC’s proposed reforms. Part of the reason was that they did not achieve in full the aim we have, which is to bring down the delays and waiting lists to a sustainable level and keep them there. The other reason—I know Sir Brian Leveson has expressed support for this view…”

“We have committed to that. Talking about the investment piece, clearly, that is predicated on the ability to do that—on having the audiovisual equipment to make recordings of the magistrates hearings, and transcription where needed. We have committed that investment. Of course, I am determined that these reforms come f…”

“That is something we will have to take away and look at to make sure there is no barrier to access to justice. I am not going to commit to it right away, but I will take away that point.”

“I have one further brief point on this. This was an IRCC recommendation, and we think it is a good idea. We are not claiming that it makes a huge time saving, but it fits with the principle of proper triage. Of course, where a mistake has been made, a right of appeal should be available, and we see the success rate the…”

“I might defer to those either side of me to give a precise answer about what has been factored in, but I would say two things. First, the evidence shows that the timeliness gain from the overall reduction in the backlog as a result of extending magistrates court sentencing powers makes it a useful tool. That is why we …”