Speeches by Sackman.

“There are a number of things. We have explored the evidence and the amount of disclosure, so it is the quantum or volume of evidence, as well as the nature of that evidence and its complexity. There will be some of what have been dubbed “inefficiencies”, which were referred to in the previous panel. I do not want the C…”

“It will do all those things, Chair. It is important that it does, and it is important that Parliament gets the opportunity to scrutinise this. While I stand by the point that it is right that we rebalance the interests of justice when it comes to the determination of mode of trial—so that that rests with the court rath…”

“I am trying to do the opposite. I do not think we should detach any one of these measures from the overall objective here, which is about building a criminal justice system fit for the 21st century. I say that because the last time any Government looked at reform of the criminal justice system in any significant way wa…”

“That is right, yes.”

“I am Sarah Sackman KC MP, and I am the Minister for Courts and Legal Services in the Justice Department.”

“One of the fundamental things that we have been seeing for some time now is increased demand. The backlogs really began to run out of control from covid onwards, but they were already beginning to rise before then, due to the increased police numbers, as well as more proactive policing and more proactive charging decis…”

“I am not going to comment further without having the detail in front of me, but it is an alternative model, and one with merit. It is about an immigration and asylum system that works. I do not see it through the lens of a reduction of judicial powers. You will always have the High Court and the upper tribunal as a bac…”

“As the Home Secretary has confirmed to you, there is an intention for there to be a transition from the first-tier tribunal and the IAC to a new independent adjudicator and a phased approach. No doubt the Home Secretary will share more detail with the Committee in due course. I understand that there are plans for the H…”

“I might defer to those either side of me to give a precise answer about what has been factored in, but I would say two things. First, the evidence shows that the timeliness gain from the overall reduction in the backlog as a result of extending magistrates court sentencing powers makes it a useful tool. That is why we …”

“I have one further brief point on this. This was an IRCC recommendation, and we think it is a good idea. We are not claiming that it makes a huge time saving, but it fits with the principle of proper triage. Of course, where a mistake has been made, a right of appeal should be available, and we see the success rate the…”

“That is something we will have to take away and look at to make sure there is no barrier to access to justice. I am not going to commit to it right away, but I will take away that point.”

“No. I think perhaps politicians are guilty here; we recognise the significance of these reforms, because something significant is required to address the crisis that we are in, but their radicalism can be overstated. This is not a scrapping of all jury trials—far from it. We expect that at least three quarters of the t…”

“We have committed to that. Talking about the investment piece, clearly, that is predicated on the ability to do that—on having the audiovisual equipment to make recordings of the magistrates hearings, and transcription where needed. We have committed that investment. Of course, I am determined that these reforms come f…”

“We looked at the modelling of the impact of the IRCC’s proposed reforms. Part of the reason was that they did not achieve in full the aim we have, which is to bring down the delays and waiting lists to a sustainable level and keep them there. The other reason—I know Sir Brian Leveson has expressed support for this view…”

“That is why he suggested it, and it is set out in his report. I was pleased to hear the speaker from the Magistrates’ Association say on the earlier panel that these proposals, taken as a whole, are a vote of confidence in our magistracy. You are right: our magistrates provide that lay element and connection to local j…”

“I absolutely take that point. I suppose my contention is that the trial they receive in the CCBD, as with the trial they would receive in a magistrates court or before a jury, should be fair regardless, and it can be fair under the CCBD. What we want to do is look at fairness right across the criminal justice system.”

“I am not going to comment further without having the detail in front of me, but it is an alternative model, and one with merit. It is about an immigration and asylum system that works. I do not see it through the lens of a reduction of judicial powers. You will always have the High Court and the upper tribunal as a bac…”

“I think giving reasons, not just in judicial decision making but in public decision making—having to justify why you have reached the conclusion or decision you have reached, albeit that people may not like the decision—is a really important component of open justice and transparency. Of course, it is also open to chal…”

“You are right to draw attention to disproportionality and racial disparity right across the criminal justice system. When I set out plans for comprehensive reform of the criminal justice system, it is one of the areas that I think we should be looking for every opportunity to address. It is not just in courts, of cours…”

“Indeed it could.”