Speeches by Carling.

“They were aware of that. But the point they specifically made in September was that they were not aware of the recent fall. How do we reconcile that?”

“Fine. Just to clarify, I asked whether it was a case of the board not being proactive enough or not being informed of the problem. Was it the former?”

“I just want to come in very briefly, having now found those December 2022 meeting minutes. There is a mention of the survey response rate in them. Under a larger item about the TLFS and an update on that project, there is one sentence that says, “Labour market statistics have declined in quality over recent years follo…”

“More broadly on the governance and the board, can you outline your perspective on the role of the board a little more and give us a sense of whether you think they discharged their function effectively during your time in office?”

“That is useful; I think that is all I really needed on that. Can I ask a separate question about an individual called Alison Pritchard? This is someone who we have heard mentioned a few times. She is still listed on the website but does not seem to be at the ONS any more. Are you able to shed any more light on what hap…”

“Sir Ian, I have some broad questions on governance and the board, which I know you want to get on to, but before we do, I have a few questions on the cultural points. We have discussed the Devereux review and some the issues from your perspective with it. I will put it to you that that was not the first review or the f…”

“That is useful.”

“That covers a few of the points that I was going to raise. I just asked about the Labyrinth report; I was going to go on to say that there were some really damning comments in it, which I will refer to briefly. There were comments on the governance and decision-making structures that are widely seen as ineffective in s…”

“Okay, but why did you not take the Labyrinth report to the board? There was no discussion on it by the board.”

“When we discussed this with the board chair, his perspective was that, essentially, he had caught wind of it almost by accident.”

“Sir Robert Chote took over in ’23. I have that it was published in March 2023.”

“But even before Sir Robert came in, the previous board was not sighted on the report.”

“That answers my question, but I am really shocked by the severity of that. The whole point of a board is to be a critical friend to the senior leadership of an organisation, to allow these sorts of issues to be explored, and for the expertise of board members to be used to help resolve them. Was there a reason that you…”

“Okay. The board chair said to us in a previous session that he made the point to you that he should have seen it, but did not. Your reply, as he put it, was, “Look, you’ve seen it now and we’ve acted on it.” Do you regret that approach?”

“May I move on to a couple of broader questions on the board, unless there is anything more specific on that point?”

“Thank you. That is all really helpful context. I actually asked Ed Humpherson, when we had him in front of the Committee, whether he thought the board ought to be split between the two organisations. Interestingly, he had the opposite perspective. One of the questions I was going to ask you was, “Isn’t it a governance …”

“That is helpful. I am going to put my first question to you again, if I may, because although you covered content that is useful, it did not quite hit the first question I asked. Can you outline a little more what you think the role of the board is and whether it has been effective? I suppose, from what you have just b…”

“Very briefly, was it meeting those three things? Was it setting strategy?”

“We have asked the board; I am interested in whether you thought they were doing it.”

“Fine. That is helpful. You have talked a little about wanting to make sure that the board were sighted on everything. We have just talked about how perhaps that did not happen with the Labyrinth report. There was also this issue with the labour force survey and the declining response rates; we had a conversation about …”