Speeches by Wishart.

“That is a helpful and useful intervention, and the hon. Lady is right that the CPS did say that. I listened again very carefully to what was said, because concerns about these provisions have been raised repeatedly. I am sure that the CPS is serious about that, but I challenge the hon. Lady to look at the provisions an…”

“Perhaps not—I am sure you would have a few words to say about that, Dr Murrison. I did anticipate the Minister’s response, but I do not think there is anything wrong with ensuring that our commitments to international operations and to the whole force of human rights across the world—things we agree on—are in the Bill.…”

“Before I put my question to the Minister, I will just say to the Committee that “The Chief” is available on iPlayer, if they want to enjoy the eight episodes that will come their way.”

“Police Scotland has a chief constable who is in charge, but in “Scot Squad”, Commissioner Miekelson is a chief commissioner. It is only right that we point out these distinctions; there is a significant difference between that mythical, fictional character and the reality of the role of chief constable, which is very e…”

“Thank you, Mr Stuart. That is a reasonable point; I think the hon. Gentleman is on to something. Of course some gang members will pretend to be asylum seekers, but it is up to the fine people who came in front of our Committee to determine and ascertain the truth. We should not create further ways to criminalise people…”

“I do not think anyone would assert, contend or propose that. Everybody is subject to the laws. Clauses 13 and 14 are designed to create new ways to criminalise people. I have listened carefully to the Government’s rhetoric, and I believe the focus and ambit of these new laws is to smash the gangs and disrupt their busi…”

“It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairing this afternoon, Mr Stuart. I welcome you to the Committee. Clauses 13 to 18 are where we start to get into the serious business of the Bill, and where some of its most concerning and controversial aspects are revealed. Nowhere is that more certain than in clauses …”

“I beg to move amendment 3, in clause 13, page 7, line 12, at end insert— ‘(1A) For the purposes of subsection (1), P cannot commit an offence if P is an asylum seeker.’ This amendment would specify that the offence created by clause 13 (“Supplying articles for use in immigration crime”) cannot apply to asylum seekers.”

“I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Amendment proposed: 14, in page 3, line 37, at end insert— “(c) state the number of persons who have, since the later of the passing of this Act or the last annual report, been— (i) charged with offences under sections 13, 14, 18, and 43 of t…”

“I will not detain the Committee for long. Amendment 2 covers the same sort of terrain as my amendment 1, which sought to ensure that the Border Security Commander takes cognisance of international obligations, most notably in relation to human rights and the provisions of the European convention on action against traff…”

“I am grateful to the Minister for that. I would hate to think of our combined number of years in this House, but certainly we have almost spanned half a century. The first 12 clauses are totally dedicated to putting the Border Security Commander into statute, and the first three list his functions, and outline and defi…”

“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Murrison. It is a good 10 years since I have had the pleasure and privilege of being on a Public Bill Committee—or Standing Committee, as we used to call them back in the day—and I hope that it will be as much fun as I remember. Ten years ago, I was the home affairs sp…”

“I beg to move amendment 1, in clause 3, page 2, line 29, at end insert— “(1A) In exercising the Commander’s functions, the Commander must have full regard to the provisions of— (a) the Human Rights Act 1998; and (b) the Council of Europe Convention on Action against Trafficking in Human Beings.” This amendment would co…”

“Yes, but that is gone. Dame Angela Eagle: And very expensive they turned out to be. We have inherited such a mess, with huge backlogs and very long waits for appeals, that we have to try to clear up. We have an asylum system that essentially broke down—I think one of our witnesses was talking about it being “in meltdow…”

“Q I know that we do not have much time, but I have two quick points following the compelling evidence we have heard today. It has been a very good session. One of the things that came across powerfully was the view that this Bill will do very little to actually tackle the gangs; we heard consistently throughout the evi…”

“Q I would like to pick up on that point, because it is very important. I think I saw somewhere that you commented that there is a lack of evidence about the long-term effects of prosecuting people smugglers, because they will just be displaced. It strikes me that given that there are no other means or safe routes to ge…”

“Not according to the current numbers: 205 is a lot of people being convicted for being compelled to drive a boat—”

“Q Welcome; thank you for coming along and giving your evidence, and for your written evidence. I think you are absolutely right to focus on the new criminal clauses that are included in the Bill, and to comment on how invidious they may be in how they might be broadly applied to asylum seekers. Do you agree that, if we…”

“Q It is not really going to affect the gangs, and very few of them will be caught under the Bill. I had a dispute earlier with a director general of the National Crime Agency about piloting the boats, which will, as you know, be an offence under the new legislation. In the last three years, 205 people were convicted on…”

“Q You are an expert in immigration and crime—you have been doing some work on that. The clauses concerning criminalisation are main features of the Bill. How many more asylum seekers do you think will be put through the criminal courts as a result of this legislation, and how many members of gangs, and those that do th…”