Speeches by Caliskan.

“I will stop there, but I will just finish by saying that I hope you take good note of what the Local Government Association has said in this space. The duties that you outline are not happening across the country. Local government does not have the capacity to do that. The examples that I have given are in no way unusu…”

“On that very point, our pre-panel members were very clear that the ages between 10 and 20 years old are determining ages. There is a clear linkage between those ages and the stats around violence against women and girls, both as victims and perpetrators. What Ms Owen has talked about, in many ways, is part of that cult…”

“Can I thank the panel members too for their contributions so far? I want to build a little bit more on Mr Betts’ points around place‑based. As an ex-council leader of six years, I absolutely concur with what other panel members have said around the importance of footprints aligning—that is more of a technical point—but…”

“May I ask some questions around staffing numbers? It is true, is it not, that, in recent years, the Department of Health and Social Care, and indeed NHS England, has seen a significant growth in terms of staffing? If you take, for instance, the Department, there are tens of new recruits every month. The very fact that …”

“Yes, in terms of the savings needed.”

“No, the point I am trying to make is, if you spent that money upstream as opposed to downstream, there is no question about value for money. The amount of money that is spent by HMRC is always less than the amount of return; therefore, there is always value for money. Would you be able to get even more if that £100 mil…”

“Sure, but I am looking for reassurance that the people spend is on knowledge and delivering digital infrastructure and not on strategies and ideas.”

“Sir Jim, if you have to take a day off work to be on hold to HMRC, that is a financial burden as an individual. Equally, if you are a micro or small business that is having to pick up the phone yourself as opposed to using an accountant to do that for you, that is a financial cost too, but I think that you would acknow…”

“I want to ask a little more about the overall cost of the digital systems and why the higher spend has not lowered the overall cost of collecting taxes.”

“I note all the responses. The only thing I would say is, at a time when resources are scarce and the public is looking for more value for money, Government as a whole need to be doing more with less. I come from a local government background where, for a long time, senior officers have had to do more with less. It is h…”

“You do not feel that the organisation is too top-heavy.”

“Given that staffing costs have gone up and productivity has gone down, how can you reassure the Committee that you are delivering value for money when your important comparators, i.e. other Government Departments, are spending less on senior staff?”

“I would just like to ask about grade mix. The increase in seniority in HMRC’s workforce exceeded the increase in, for instance, the DWP’s workforce and the civil service as a whole. HMRC’s staff mix is 54% in the senior grades. That is much higher than, for instance, DWP’s, which is at 20%, and more than the civil serv…”

“It is not that 20% of the overall cost is spent on consultants giving you advice on how to deliver a digital service, for example. I ask this because there have been lots of examples in the past— perhaps not at HMRC but throughout public sector—where, when you dig deeper, you see that it is not all spent on infrastruct…”

“I wanted to ask about that because productivity has been a challenge. You have provided an answer in part around the delay of seeing the returns on the investment in compliance officers. I think that is how you referred to the work. Understanding whether you are getting value for money on the additional spend on staff …”

“Can I thank Sir Jim and his colleagues for joining the Committee today? I would like to go back to talking about the overall cost increase for HMRC, with a specific focus on staffing. I know, Sir Jim, you have already touched on some of that, but if I could just go back and probe a bit more, the overall cost has increa…”

“My final question is a broader one. What are your views on the potential for digital systems now and in the future to address cost pressures?”

“I will ask you about grading mix in a moment compared to other Government Departments. In terms of compliance and the more senior members of staff dealing with more complicated cases, as you put it, is there a focus on the upstream or the downstream? I am trying to get a sense on behalf of the Committee as to whether t…”

“There are mitigations for each of those risks, I am assuming, and this is regularly monitored.”

“There have been comparable incidents in local authorities over the past few years, have there not? Cyber-attacks have meant that whole council tax systems have been wiped out and local authorities have been unable to collect council tax for years in some cases. I guess I am looking for some reassurance. I am sure there…”