Speeches by O'Brien.

“Q Is the only amendment that we will be seeing from the Government on some of the issues we talked about today on pay, with nothing on clause 43, QTS or the national curriculum? If the answer is yes, and you are not planning an amendment on those, that is fine. I just wondered if the Minister had been persuaded by any …”

“Q Is the Minister prepared to commit to work with school leaders, both the ones here today and others, to generate that amendment so that they are all satisfied with where we end up? Catherine McKinnell: We are in close consultation with all of the stakeholders that we have been collaborating with to make sure we creat…”

“Q So it is still your intention to make all academies comply with the school teachers’ pay and condition document, despite what Sir Jon Coles talked about regarding the problems that that would create? Catherine McKinnell: As I said, the amendment will require all state schools to follow the minimum pay bands set out i…”

“We have limited time. Can you please just answer the question. I have incredibly limited time.”

“Could you answer the question? Catherine McKinnell: I will answer the question.”

“Q We have heard from four or five different school leaders today alone that the Bill needs to be changed to deliver what the Government are committed to rhetorically, not just on pay and conditions, but on the national curriculum. They say that “It is nice that this is your intention” and “It is nice that this is what …”

“And others.”

“Q Thank you to our witnesses for their patience while we voted. I was asking you about what you wrote in Schools Week, Rebecca—you said that the Bill was “not good legislation” and described it as “micromanagement” and “stifling”, and you talked about your experience of using some of those school freedoms. I wonder whe…”

“Q On unit costs, I saw in the Government document that there was an initial grant—a lump sum—but the unit cost was about 65p per session per child. I know that there was the lump sum as well, but that struck me as being not a huge amount. I do not know what it really costs to deliver these things in practice in a lot o…”

“Q I was trying to get at what the unit costs look like and how you manage the interaction of providing a new, free entitlement to 30 minutes together with paid-for sessions that offer longer and existing, charitably funded things. Is there anything we need to do in the Bill to ensure that that does not get tangled up? …”

“Q Is that primary? Kate Anstey: There is a higher proportion in primary, but that 75% is across all. Sorry—I have forgotten your question.”

“Q There are charities, voluntary groups and various people out there funding free breakfasts, and there are paid-for free breakfasts at the moment, so the interaction of the Government-funded entitlement for the 30 minutes and those two other things will be quite complicated. Do you have any thoughts about anything tha…”

“Q But there is no certainty after that. Kate Anstey: Yes, there is no certainty after that. The costs cannot land on families—we know that that will be a major barrier—but they also cannot land on schools, which need to know that they can continue that provision.”

“Q That is a very interesting point. Do you have a sense yet of the future funding arrangements for breakfast clubs in secondary schools and for HAF—holiday activities and food? What is the current status of those, as you understand it? Kate Anstey: My understanding is that the HAF funding for holiday programmes has bee…”

“Q Do you mean universal within the school—everyone has access to it? Kate Anstey: Yes, exactly. Take-up of breakfast clubs varies, but the fact that it is universally available is very important. I would say that it feels like secondary school pupils need more attention. They are being missed in the Bill. More could be…”

“Q Thank you; that is very helpful. I have a question for Rebecca. In Schools Week you wrote: “The schools bill working its way through Parliament…is not good legislation.” You described it as “micromanagement” and “stifling”. You talked about some of your experiences as a headteacher. Can you expand a bit on the overal…”

“Q Good afternoon. Thank you for bearing with us while we voted. During the course of the day we have been discussing free school meals in secondary schools. It is obviously desirable to give lots of people free breakfasts, but there has been a bit of a debate about how to prioritise in a situation of inevitably scarce …”

“Q What is the problem? David Thomas: I have worked with some fantastic people—generally late-career people in shortage subjects who want to go and give back in the last five to 10 years of their career—who would not go through some of the bureaucracy associated with getting qualified teacher status but are absolutely f…”

“Q There are lots of other big challenges in the sector at the moment: attendance, discipline and lots of other things. Is there anything else that you would like to either amend in the Bill or add to it? David Thomas: I have concerns about limiting the number of people with unqualified teacher status who are not workin…”

“Q Do you think it would be more attractive to extend those freedoms over both pay and conditions to local authority schools? David Thomas: I think it would absolutely work, as CST has suggested, to say that statutory teachers’ pay and conditions should be an advisory thing that schools and trusts need to have due regar…”