Speeches by Wood.

“Q A lot of the questions to witnesses today have revolved around the code of conduct. There are several parts of the Bill that refer to a code or codes of conduct. Can you give us an idea of how those will operate? Are we looking at a single code or multiple documents? What will their status be? Andrew Western: For the…”

“Q But I am right in saying that that will be at a systemic level, rather than being able to say, case by case, “That was the wrong decision, and I am changing that decision.” Mark Cheeseman: There will be case-by-case review, but you are right; it will be more, “Here is an issue that should be dealt with, and here’s ho…”

“Q It is certainly a minimum, but a decision as to whether that is the right period of time is very much made within the organisation that is asking for the information, rather than there being any formal and independent process for the person responding to that request to be able to say, “Actually, we just can’t do thi…”

“Q Does a review of the Minister’s decision also then go back to the original decision maker? Mark Cheeseman: It is slightly different—it goes back within the structure, but the review of that decision is done by a separate authorised officer from the original authorised officer who did it.”

“Q It is absolutely a minimum, but is it correct that varying from that minimum is at the discretion of the Minister? Mark Cheeseman: Yes, in the legislation.”

“Q In terms of the obligations on organisations that are issued with information notices, based on your current experience, how many of the organisations that you approach asking for information typically respond within 10 days? Mark Cheeseman: It is important to remember that the 10 days in the legislation is a minimum…”

“We saw this in other legislation under the previous Government. It is not uncommon for Ministers to give an undertaking that at least a draft code might be published before legislation returns to Parliament for final decisions to be made. I know this is, perhaps, a question to ask of Ministers in a future session, but …”

“Q For those of us who have been asked to make a decision on whether the powers in the legislation before us are reasonable and proportionate, as we have heard from one witness after another today, it is very difficult to make that decision without knowing how they will be carried out in practice. That obviously means k…”

“Q How close do you feel we are to having at least an idea of what a code of practice would look like, based on the PSFA’s experience in its current form? Mark Cheeseman: The Public Sector Fraud Authority has been created by bringing together people from other spaces. These powers are designed by His Majesty’s Revenue a…”

“Q Is there a reason why it is not possible to refer to those standards in the legislation, if that is the accepted norm? Mark Cheeseman: I am not sure whether one would refer to it in the legislation. It could be in the code of practice, and aspects like that.”

“Q The provisions in the Bill are fairly vague about who can exercise those powers directly. Compared with the investigatory powers created and set out in other legislation, should we be a bit more specific about what that experience, those qualifications or that seniority looks like? Mark Cheeseman: The Bill currently …”

“Q That independence is balanced with many of the provisions in the Bill, particularly around the information notices and the other Cabinet Office parts of the Bill, which come down to decision making by the Minister for the Cabinet Office. How does the independence of the PSFA interrelate with the personal sign-offs re…”

“Q I want to go back to a question that I asked Mr Smart earlier. One of the main measures in the Bill is to move the PSFA from the Cabinet Office to make it an independent body. What do you see as the practical benefits? How will the public sector benefit from that new status? Mark Cheeseman: The practical benefit to c…”

“Thank you very much.”

“Q What recourse would individuals have who are adversely affected, whether it is by machine-made decision making or even human decision making? Ellen Lefley: That is where it gets quite tricky, because of course the first barrier would be even knowing that you have been subject to any kind of algorithmic decision makin…”

“Q I want to stay on the artificial intelligence framework. You have spoken about the changes being made in the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill. Other than the undertakings given by Ministers, what legal restrictions would there be on the operation of artificial intelligence in decision-making and investiga…”

“Q Are there any other areas where you think the Bill could approach things differently? Is anything missing that you think should be in the Bill? Daniel Cichocki: Given that the eligibility verification measure is one of the more extensive powers in the Bill, we think that it may be appropriate to require the Minister …”

“Q Is there any measure of how long it currently takes banks to respond to information requests from Government, such as those from HMRC, under existing powers? Daniel Cichocki: A variety of powers exist to date. Some have time measures built in for compliance with them and some are voluntary. I think you have to ensure…”

“Q Presumably you agree with the previous witness that, in general, banks are reasonably well adapted to responding to such notices. Do you think that 10 days is reasonable for them? Daniel Cichocki: Certainly. The banks share very significant amounts of information with Government Departments and law enforcement to ens…”

“Q Do you have any idea what the additional man hours or potential cost burden could be for a typical bank in a typical year? Daniel Cichocki: It is quite difficult at this stage to perform that level of assessment, partly because so much detail of the measure will be set out in the code of practice. We are obviously ve…”