Speeches by Hillier.

“If you could supply both our Committees with something written, that would be helpful. You will have written, no doubt, to the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee about this, so perhaps Ms Barber could take that back and make sure that we see the same—maybe the Chair saw it, but I did not. It would be helpful to see…”

“Okay, that is an average. I represent an inner-city London seat, and a number of us around the table represent expensive areas where you would need more than £30,000 to make a difference.”

“So you think there is not a chance of that contingent liability crystallising. Contingent liabilities are normal to see, but you think the risk of crystallisation is limited. You have done an analysis of that.”

“On that point, Minister Pennycook, there are some councils, such as Hackney council—my council—that are building council homes, but, as you say, lots of councils do not have architects, departments, the skillset, the direct labour organisation or even the ability to procure. Are you looking at encouraging councils to g…”

“It is unlikely to crystallise, you think.”

“Just say yes.”

“Or a ballpark figure if you cannot give an exact figure. I expect you could write to us—”

“Sorry, is £30,000 the average across England?”

“To be clear, the targets will follow the bids—it is about what is possible.”

“Finally, in expensive areas, building a social housing unit is very expensive. For example, in Hackney, that means more grant would need to go in, in an area where I have massive overcrowding, with one in two children living in poverty, partly because of the housing situation. That means that the tendency in your Depar…”

“New towns are being planned, so it would be helpful to have a rough timetable for that, but also to know where those new towns are going to be built. That is going to add a lot of volume, but it may not be where people are. My constituents might not be so keen to move to a new town, because it is not local. That may ra…”

“What contingent liability is the Treasury carrying on the mortgage guarantee scheme over this Parliament?”

“Just to give an example, a perverse outcome of Help to Buy was that, in Stoke-on-Trent, large executive homes were built in an area where people could not afford them, so they were not very useful to the local population. We all know our own areas and what is needed, and I completely get that local authorities have a v…”

“I think it is actually very honest not to have an annual target, but there is the challenge that, for every year you are not completing many, you are piling them on towards the end. What metrics are you using? You have net additional completions. Are there any other metrics about tenure, location or geography? You can …”

“My point is really that people can buy homes with easier mortgages, but does that mean it is actually affordable for them? Thank you for taking that away. I want to touch on the mortgage guarantee scheme. My simple question is: why bother? Given that Santander has a 98% loan-to-value offer and many others have 95% loan…”

“That is first-time buyers, yes. Have you analysed it across the rest of the market?”

“It is always an ambitious thing to put things towards the end of a Parliament.”

“Minister Pennycook, you said earlier that we could measure you by net additional completions, and you said there would be no annual target. That is a sensible approach, but when will we see a volume of homes built? When do you expect to see net and additional completions go up? I do not mean small bits this year. When …”

“Is it something you might want to take away and think about?”

“Okay. Finally, a quick one on marriage value. We talked about affordable housing products. Once a lease gets too low, it is very expensive for people. They are losing value. It is expensive. They can’t sell. How do you intend to make sure that that is resolved? That is the feudal system kicking in, isn’t it?”