Speeches by Hatton.

“My concern, though, is that the estimates in the example that I gave are so inaccurate, and the staffing shortfall so significant within the Probation Service. Do you not share my concern that, if you have a retention crisis in the Probation Service, you are part of causing that crisis because you do not know how many …”

“Permanent Secretary, having heard those remarks from Jim Barton but just taking a step back, would it be safe to assume that, if you have a severely understaffed Probation Service, coupled with a severely understaffed prisons estate, we are in a really quite dangerous and worrying situation when it comes to the future …”

“So the data and the information at the fingertips of the MOJ was so wildly inaccurate that it meant that there was a surprise factor when you, as a Department, found out that you were operating with around half the staff needed to run sentence management.”

“That is quite shocking.”

“So you agree. That is why you are undertaking it.”

“I am sure that you can understand the concern of the Committee, though. If a secondary school was operating with around half the staff required to operate, there would be so many stakeholders who would know about that. The parents, the school governors, the senior leadership at the school, the local authority and proba…”

“Looking more to the future, how confident are you that the MOJ now understands the true extent of the staffing shortfalls in probation? Do you foresee that estimate changing again? It has been revised, so do you see there being further revision in the future, or do you now have a grip on what the true extent of the sta…”

“What about before then?”

“Can the right hon. Lady explain to the House what it would mean for the 1,360 children in her constituency, and the nearly 1,700 children in my constituency, who would remain in levels of relative poverty if we chose to pursue the two-child benefit cap for many more years, as she is suggesting?”

“Does the right hon. Lady not share the concerns already articulated by the Confederation of British Industry that simply to scrap the Climate Change Act and the important work of this Government in pursuing net zero targets would be a “backwards step”? That would actually be to the detriment of people’s energy bills an…”

“That aside, do you share the concern I have that, if we have a severely understaffed Probation Service, which is what this report states, and a severely understaffed prison estate, we are in quite a worrying and dangerous pattern, where both are under great pressure and each is perhaps unable to rely on the other to su…”

“The fact that we have 43 different HR systems makes me think we are a long way from there.”

“That is the clarification that we would probably welcome. When will the step change be made from guidance and advice to, “This is best practice, which you must follow through”? Otherwise we are going to continue to see 43 police forces operate in a not very cost-effective and disparate way. What is not coming through t…”

“15. What steps his Department is taking to help ensure adequate levels of accountability of estate management companies.”

“At a recent public meeting, people living at the Chesil Reach and Greys Field development in Chickerell told me about the problems they had been facing with the estate management company FirstPort, with large increases to the service charge, little transparency and a failure to fulfil even the most basic obligations. I…”

“To support what has been said, national procurement frameworks are already in place, but that is guidance; it is advice. What reassurance can you give this Committee that the future changes we see driven, whether that is by BlueLight Commercial or by the efficiency and collaboration programme, will move forward from ad…”

“You have said it now.”

“We look forward to the session in 18 months’ time.”

“That is very good to hear. Again, this Committee will need significant reassurance that this programme that we are discussing will be different from those in the recent past and we can get to a point where there is not example after example after example of taxpayers’ money being unwisely spent because we have ineffici…”

“I completely accept that there will always be that tension between the local and the national. Having flex in a system can sometimes be a good thing. It is interesting that the damning report by the Public Accounts Committee in 2011 did drive improvements and simplification within the NHS over several years. Can you re…”