Speeches by Leadbeater.

“That is really helpful. Dr Mullock, do you want to add anything? Dr Mullock: I agree with most of the things that I am aware of that Professor Esmail just talked about. I would add that at the moment, people go sooner than they would wish to die because they have to go to Switzerland while they are still well enough to…”

“Q Thank you so much for giving evidence this afternoon. Perhaps I can provide a bit of reassurance, Baroness Falkner, on a couple of issues. The first thing I would say in terms of the Bill—”

“It will be a question. The Bill is very clear, in clause 2(3), that disabled people are not within its scope, but I would be really interested to know if there is anything you think we could add to make that clearer—I put that to Fazilet, too—because I want to be really clear about that, and I want to provide any reass…”

“Q Baroness Falkner, do you want to come in on the point about how we could make the Bill more robust in terms of those protections? Baroness Falkner: Can I just pick up the point about section 6 of the Equality Act 2010? That is clear, but it was not written with the intention of applying in these circumstances; it is …”

“Q You raise a really important point. There is a range of different views within the disabled community, and we heard some of them this morning. A professor of disability rights made the point that disabled people also do not want to be excluded from the Bill, because if you have a terminal illness and you are disabled…”

“Thank you.”

“On a point of order, Mr Dowd. I am slightly concerned that we are having a conversation about the process, rather than about the actual Bill. I am not sure whether that is in scope of the work of the Committee.”

“Q Thank you, witnesses, for joining us this afternoon. The good news for us all, on the palliative care conversation, is that we have in the room the Minister responsible for palliative care, who has heard those arguments loud and clear. Indeed, Second Reading showed that there is a huge amount of good will in the Hous…”

“Q To that point, in those conversations where patients are making very serious decisions, it is not uncommon that you would seek additional advice from other professions, such as a psychiatrist or possibly a social worker and other professionals, if you felt there was a need to do so. Professor Whitty: The further you …”

“Q Exactly, so although the terminology of “refer” might not be quite right, are we saying that we have got to provide that patient with a course of action? Dr Green: Yes. It is the “referral” word that is problematic for us.”

“Q That is very helpful. Let me turn to when the GMC guidance on arrangements about assistance to die is raised with practitioners. Part of the guidance is that practitioners have to “respect competent patients’ right to make decisions about their care, including their right to refuse treatment, even if this will lead t…”

“Q Thank you for coming and giving evidence today, and for meeting with me recently. You both represent organisations that have neutral positions on assisted dying. I am really interested in this multidisciplinary approach that you are talking about, and I think it is a really valuable conversation, so thank you for rai…”

“Q That is incredibly helpful, thank you. You are absolutely right to bring it back to patient autonomy—patient choice—so that, while putting all the safeguards in place, we are very clear that it is their genuine choice based on what they really want to do. It sounds as though you are saying—”

“Yes. It sounds as though you are saying that your professionals are trained to have those conversations, which is very reassuring. Glyn, do you want to add anything? Glyn Berry: Just to say that I absolutely agree with Professor Ranger. My experience of working with palliative nurses, and nurses in general, is long, an…”

“Q Goodness me, there is a lot to cover. To go back to your point, Mr Sanderson, it is important to acknowledge the fantastic work that palliative care professionals do. Indeed, it is extremely important that we are having these conversations, which is why we gave extra time to this panel of witnesses. Dr Cox, on your p…”

“Can I ask a quick follow-up, Chair?”

“Q I have a very quick one. You talked about inequality in healthcare and in systems. What I would like to come back to is the status quo. What are your comments on the inequality that exists currently, where assisted dying is available to people who have got the money to go to Switzerland, or another jurisdiction, and …”

“Does anybody else want to comment? Dr Cox? Dr Cox: I am happy to. Of course we do not want people to have to make that choice. I will refer to everything I have said before: are they are making a real choice, and have they had access to really excellent palliative care? I also make a brief point about the impact of the…”

“But those deaths do exist.”

“Q I will try to be brief. I thank the witnesses for joining us from wherever they are in the world—it is great to have you with us today. I will get straight to the point. There is understandably a significant amount of nervousness about the potential change that the Bill would create within England and Wales. Could yo…”