Speeches by Leadbeater.

“This is a very interesting point. I am slightly concerned about the equality and human rights issues in terms of the patients and terminally ill people, as well as the staff—that relates to the point that the right hon. Member for North West Hampshire just made. I do not know whether the hon. Member has done any resear…”

“I am speaking to my hon. Friend. The point she raised about “directly” and “indirectly” is a very good one, and subsection (1A) says “In particular”, which is not exclusive. That lack of clarity and certainty concerns me; does she agree?”

“If my hon. Friend will give way, in response to the point made by the hon. Gentleman, the drafting of “directly or indirectly” does worry me—”

“I am just trying to imagine what this would look like in reality. My own grandparents, for example, ended their days in a care home, and that was their home—that was where they lived, that was their address, and they paid to live there. If they had had a terminal diagnosis and had wanted to end their days in their home…”

“The hon. Member is making an important point. I would like to get it on the record that I agree with him: there should be no duty on any person to take part in the Bill’s provisions if they choose not to, for whatever reason. I will struggle to support his amendment because there are other issues with it, but on that p…”

“The Minister has covered my amendments 497 and 498 very clearly, so I will not speak to them. I am happy to support amendment 462, tabled by the hon. Member for East Wiltshire, about which we had a conversation this morning. I only make the observation that there is already a requirement in clause 18(4)(b) that, at the…”

“My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. I certainly have not heard anyone try to diminish the experience of suicidal people. We probably all have our own stories of loved ones who we have either lost to suicide—I know that I do—or who had very severe mental health issues. The point I would make is that the families I ha…”

“The hon. Member is making an interesting philosophical point with his biblical references. I think the point he may be making is that there might not be any difference for the individual, as the result is sadly the same, but I put it to him that there is quite a significant difference for the other person. If we think …”

“The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful speech, and I thank him for the respectful way in which he is doing so. He has given an example of a very personal story; it is also important to remember the other personal stories we have all heard. We have with us today in the Public Gallery family members who have lost loved …”

“I commend the amendment to the Committee. Amendment 479 agreed to. Clause 17, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 18 Provision of assistance Amendment made: 378, in clause 18, page 12, line 9, leave out paragraph (a) and insert— “(a) a certificate of eligibility has been granted in respect of a person…”

“The amendment, which would clarify the drafting, speaks for itself. The important point is that the record of cancellation be with the GP practice as soon as is practicable. It is not necessary for that to take place physically at the practice, as that could potentially delay its delivery.”

“I beg to move amendment 479, in clause 17, page 11, line 37, leave out “at” and insert “with”. This amendment clarifies that a cancellation may be given to a practitioner with the person’s GP practice.”

“I have nothing further to add. Amendment 474 agreed to. Amendments made: 475, clause 16, page 11, line 19, leave out from second “the” to “in” in line 21 and insert “occurrence of the recordable event”. This amendment is consequential on amendments 209 and 377. Amendment 476, in clause 16, page 11, line 24, leave out f…”

“I do not know the details of the individual cases that the hon. Member speaks about, but he makes a powerful point and we absolutely agree on the importance of recording and monitoring. I know that he voted against the changes at clause 12, but I hope he gets some reassurance from the changes that the commission would …”

“I will speak first to my amendment 473. It is important to be clear that the role of the proxy is very specific and would be used only in a very limited number of cases, where the patient is not able to sign their own name. That is, however, important when we are talking about terminally ill people who may be physicall…”

“Does the Minister agree that it will be on the record that we have had this conversation, and that many of us—including myself—have expressed our concerns about the concept of good standing in the community? I would like to think that that will be taken into consideration.”

“My point was that I think amendment 411 has been withdrawn.”

“Will the hon. Member give way?”

“I repeat what I said earlier about what will happen to the patient if they choose to cancel: their care will continue. From a medical practitioner perspective, it is inconceivable that those patients would be abandoned, as the hon. Member for East Wiltshire is suggesting. That would not happen. I understand that cancel…”

“To allay those fears, perhaps the fundamental answer to the question is that those people do not stop being patients—sadly, they do not stop being terminally ill patients. They have just chosen to cancel the declaration, and they will already have wraparound care. To some degree, the hon. Gentleman answered his own que…”