Speeches by Kruger.

“I imagine that a doctor who works for the non-profit service I am envisioning would be paid a salary and do their work, but would not be paid on a per-client basis—they would not be paid a tariff for the number of people they passed through the system, let alone for the different chunks of the process. People need to b…”

“I am sorry to cut off the hon. Gentleman mid-flow, but he says he cannot think of an instance when the outcome will be paid for. It would perhaps not be about paying for the outcome—paying for death; for a dead body—but there could well be payments for the process leading up to that. That is the way medical payments wo…”

“I beg to move amendment 525, in clause 32, page 19, line 26, leave out subsection (2).”

“I didn’t know it was illegal. [Laughter.]”

“No, I fundamentally disagree: end-of-life care is healthcare. It is addresses symptoms and conditions, and it is designed in a way that is completely compatible with the founding principle of the NHS, whereas the Bill—I appreciate the honesty of the drafters in recognising this, even if they do not quite spell it out—a…”

“And yet the irony of this measure is that it is not specific to the patient. Genuine healthcare treats the symptoms and condition of the individual patient. This proposed treatment has nothing to do with the individual symptoms or the condition of the patient; it just kills them. It is totally unrelated to the conditio…”

“It is very good to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey, on what is probably our last day in Committee. I fully expect that we will reject clause 32 in due course, so although I want to move my amendment, I have no intention of pushing it or any of the other amendments in this group to a vote, but I do want to take …”

“In response to the hon. Member for Spen Valley, the scenario that she mentions is exactly the problem in many healthcare systems around the world, particularly in America, where doctors are incentivised to deliver volumes of treatments and procedures that are often not strictly necessary. We do have a problem even in o…”

“I would, but actually I am making an intervention. It may appear that I am making a speech, so I will soon sit down, but I would be interested in the hon. Gentleman’s response to the suggestion that even he —the paragon of virtue that he is—might not be entirely resistant to the economic incentives in the system. That …”

“Steady on!”

“This is a very important debate, and my concern is that there is a naive assumption that the innate goodness of doctors will render them impervious to all the incentives in the system. As the hon. Lady suggests, if it were possible, as I think it is under the Bill, for a profit-making organisation—a company—to set itse…”

“I entirely agree with the hon. Lady. We are all equally ethical and unethical—the point is that we respond to incentives, and incentives have their effect. Does she agree that there is a further concern? If we had a tariff system, which we probably would, that would by definition create a market, if there was the oppor…”

“I very much agree with what my hon. Friend is saying. Does he agree that more could be done to protect irreplaceable chalk stream habitats, particularly in the south of England? Does he also agree that one thing we could do is designate those chalk stream habitats to be irreplaceable and ensure that the Government spec…”

“I want to quickly explain that my amendment 523 is consequential on amendment 447, but there is drafting issue. I will not go into the details but, if amendment 447 is made, as I understand it will be, my amendment 523 is not necessary. I would be grateful for the Minister’s guidance: if he has been advised by parliame…”

“I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 29, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 30 Codes of practice”

“These amendments were tabled by the hon. Member for York Central. As discussed, clause 29 requires the Registrar General to “prepare and lay before Parliament a report providing a statistical analysis of deaths” arising. We have spoken before about the paucity of data from other jurisdictions and the problems arising w…”

“I beg to move amendment 446, in clause 29, page 18, line 9, at end insert— “(4) The Secretary of State must, by regulation, specify the data sets which must be made available by the Registrar General for England and Wales. (5) Any regulations made under subsection (4) are subject to the affirmative procedure.” This ame…”

“I think the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge meant the previous Conservative and Liberal Democrat Government—just to be strictly accurate.”

“I beg to move amendment 524, in clause 30, page 18, line 40, leave out from “have regard to” and insert “comply with”. This amendment would require individuals to comply with the Codes of Practice issued by the Secretary of State.”

“There is much to get into, and I will try to respond a bit more when I speak again. I do not want to revisit the whole question of palliative care but, on the scenario set out by the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge, the strong advice that I have received from palliative care professionals is that it is not a…”