Speeches by Beales.

“Then surely this information should be available? Before this change is it not a fact that consumers could not know the calories and there is a potential argument whether it should be broader than calories. But I imagine you do not support a broader regulatory regime; you want less. So why should the out-of-home sector…”

“We have received a lot of evidence about this, to be fair, from different academics at Liverpool University and others. We have not received any from the sector, and you said there is none to provide. So there is evidence, there is some data. Just coming back to the principles, do consumers have a right to know what is…”

“Would you be gathering any data this time to inform that decision? Or again, is it just an anecdotal view?”

“The previous Government said the implementation would be reviewed in five years, with the consideration of a wider extension to beyond the 250 employee limit. What are your views about that review, and that possible extension?”

“Will you be lobbying for or against the extension?”

“Do you think the enforcement regime is up to scratch, given the fact that the local authority is underfunded, the fine is just £2,500 and it currently applies to fairly large businesses? Is that an adequate incentive for a business, to maybe get an enforcement notice about a £2,500 fine? It does not seem that many, if …”

“It is probably a question for us to put to local authorities, but I just want to ask you as a sector if any of your members are reporting that they have had an enforcement notice.”

“Are you aware of any enforcement notices that have been issued?”

“It is another thing, that is true. In terms of issues with enforcement, we have had some strong evidence from people about issues with uptake compliance, both with businesses not doing it at all, but also the accuracy of information being provided. Do you have any response to that at all? You said there was no particul…”

“What has been the negative impact on businesses? You have alluded to the potential problem of implementation. What is that problem? What has been the negative profit related to this, or the negative consumer uptake? Do you have any data around those things?”

“So you have no data about the application or about the impact, but as a sector body and a sector more broadly you strongly opposed and lobbied against it, based on a position of having no data and information. Is that not quite challenging, to advocate for something you have no data around?”

“Going back to my colleague’s earlier point about lobbying and engagement, I take the point that the sector engaged on its views about changes, but is it fair to say that the sector opposed, or did not support, the introduction of this policy?”

“But you do not have any evidence and data, you just said there were some anecdotes, but did we not need to make evidence-based policy? Because academics have provided some data and evidence.”

“I suppose what I am hearing is that, as a sector, you do not have any comprehensive information or data about the impact, what businesses reported or anything in that regard?”

“What is the sector’s view about the impact on consumer behaviour that this change has had?”

“Does there need to be better data?”

“Is there any data? You said compliance is high, it is the law, so they will be doing it—I am paraphrasing, it might not be exactly that—but do you have any data about the percentage uptake, the level of compliance?”

“Yes, to get better compliance, to support the businesses that may be coming into scope, should the requirements be extended. Is there any particular support the sector would want to see?”

“These are larger businesses with 250-plus employees at the moment, not SMEs at this stage. Just lastly, you do not support the policy or the extension, you do not have any information to inform that particularly, it is just inconvenient. In terms of if there was an extension, what support would be needed to make it wor…”

“Would that look like tools and guides to potentially count calories?”