Speeches by Hinds.

“Love that!”

“Do you want to add to that, James? I am going to come on to appointments, but maybe you want to say something.”

“Not according to Lisa. As far as I can make out, there is this snazzy thing called a permanent charter, which everyone seems to think is a good idea: “We like the BBC and we want it to continue, so let’s make it open-ended.” But there also seems to be a recognition that it is very difficult to do that when you have all…”

“Forgive me, but I am still trying to nail down exactly what it is. The Secretary of State, in talking about a permanent charter, has said that “the terms, the structures and the funding for the BBC will continue to be negotiated every several years”. So what is a permanent charter? Is this just a buzz phrase, or does i…”

“Go on—keep going! Develop this theme.”

“But what is permanent?”

“Forget the pros and the cons; what it is would be a great place to start.”

“Dame Elan, you were starting to talk about the concept of a permanent charter, which has been much talked about, including by the Secretary of State and others. What is permanent about a permanent charter?”

“I’ve got the DVDs, Iain.”

“Sorry, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that one of the most trusted sources in the world is the BBC. It is absolutely right that there is editorial independence, but we are a system where the Government set the charter, right?”

“It is like a European Commission.”

“Yes.”

“Again, that might be a cultural difference. In this country, I think that we are absolutely used to saying the Government make decisions, and if the people do not like the decisions that the Government make, the people kick out the Government. You are right—there are degrees of directness in democratic accountability. …”

“Answerable to who?”

“Sorry, but can I interrupt you there, Maria? You say it is a problem that the Government set the level. If the Government do not set the level and it is a compulsory charge, where is the democratic legitimacy?”

“Am I right in remembering that, with the Swiss example, part of it was to do with radio playing in businesses? So, all households and businesses became liable for this fee. Maybe it was TV and radio, but there was quite a brouhaha about businesses. And you have got to make those decisions, right? You have got to say, “…”

“I am glad you mentioned Switzerland, because that highlights another question. There is an interesting intellectual and policy question about where you want to end up, but there is also an interesting question about what happens by just making a change, wherever you go. Natasha was jokingly referring to what happens wh…”

“They have a referendum for everything. They would have a referendum about a Toblerone.”

“Germany is a very different country from ours. I have been scribbling down a few of the relevant differences. It has a written and recent constitution, and they are used to having political parties part paid for by the state. There is even a church tax where churches are funded through tax, and there are all the guilds…”

“Has anybody done analysis of what would happen to the total available funding for British-produced content if you did not have a licence fee at all and were just reliant on ad revenue?”