Speeches by Hinds.

“Every public body, and indeed every private body that is sensible, will listen to the public. But I do not think it is possible to say that the fact that people might not pay the licence fee gives accountability to the public, when we know that the force of the law is used to make people pay the licence fee.”

“They could have made an apology, right? They are fighting the lawsuits, but when you say they could have made a humble apology, you are not suggesting that they should not have apologised for the footage, I hope.”

“What appointments do you have in mind? Do you have some individuals in mind who have done this terrible damage because they have been political appointees and so on?”

“I think everybody—certainly everyone around this table—believes that editorial independence is paramount for the BBC. What the organisation does, how much it costs, what its scope is, its effect on other markets and so on are all public interest questions, and ultimately politicians are accountable to the public. You m…”

“That argument is perfectly respectable. There is a counter-argument though. One thing the BBC possibly stands accused of more than being susceptible to points made to it by the Government of the day is its being susceptible to a kind of groupthink, metropolitan view of the world. The question is: if the BBC board appoi…”

“As well as being someone who has worked there, you are a consumer of the BBC. When you are listening to the radio in the morning or watching the telly, do you really feel that there is a Government slant on what is coming through?”

“Do you really feel that?”

“Obviously, we all believe that the independence of the BBC is very important. James, do you believe that the BBC is politicised?”

“In response to the “Our BBC, Our Future” questionnaire, 91% of people said that it was important for the BBC to remain independent from the Government of the day. That makes you wonder slightly about the other 9%; maybe they rejected the premise of the question or something. Clearly, we all believe that—”

“On independence and appointments—”

“Yes, but that is a bit different.”

“Well, they are legally obliged to pay the licence fee.”

“Although politicians are accountable to the public.”

“I am a strong supporter of the BBC. I would say the BBC is more important than ever, but it sounds crazier than ever to say, “This will never change.” With the rapidity of change happening in the wider media landscape, the news landscape, misinformation, disinformation and the whole shooting match, it seems an extraord…”

“Love that!”

“Do you want to add to that, James? I am going to come on to appointments, but maybe you want to say something.”

“Not according to Lisa. As far as I can make out, there is this snazzy thing called a permanent charter, which everyone seems to think is a good idea: “We like the BBC and we want it to continue, so let’s make it open-ended.” But there also seems to be a recognition that it is very difficult to do that when you have all…”

“Well, I am talking about a way of thinking: it is not mostly a geographical question, though there is a geographical angle to it, but famously there are things that the BBC has totally got wrong—it has misunderstood the mood of the nation. In any big organisation you get variations of it: people hire in their own image…”

“Forgive me, but I am still trying to nail down exactly what it is. The Secretary of State, in talking about a permanent charter, has said that “the terms, the structures and the funding for the BBC will continue to be negotiated every several years”. So what is a permanent charter? Is this just a buzz phrase, or does i…”

“Go on—keep going! Develop this theme.”