Speeches by Kane.

“Thank you for saying you will write to us with information. What is the timescale for getting your evaluation criteria ready to go?”

“If all things are equal.”

“So how are you ensuring that the flex is appropriate?”

“Bringing all these individual contracts together for a forward gaze as to what is working, what evaluation have you got planned for the projects funded by the NHDF to ensure that you understand what is actually working so that you can then disseminate it around other projects?”

“If you can find a simpler option that delivers what you need, you will do it.”

“Even if the other one is better?”

“There are times when it would be appropriate to flex, and there are times when you would say, “No, come on, you’re not doing that.””

“It absolutely would not be an appropriate thing to do, but I am saying we need clarification that that cannot happen. You are telling me that you will not do that, but we need to know how you are not going to do it.”

“I have another question that goes back to something you said earlier. You mentioned that you do not want to burden developers with more reporting duties. When I was running a local authority, we used to get really annoyed when the Scottish Government would give us another duty but would not give us the resource to unde…”

“Who is drawing the red line? Where does the responsibility lie for doing the work? Is it one person? Is it multiple people?”

“We have talked an awful lot about measuring success and targets. I suspect some of these questions have been answered over the last hour and a half, but I am going to bring us back to them because it is worth getting a little clarity. On measuring the success of the national housing delivery fund, paragraph 16 of the R…”

“We would hope you would do that anyway.”

“But if the complex option is the only option you have, you will reluctantly go with that. Dame Sarah Healey indicated assent.”

“So you will have designed it, then you will have the stuff and you are going to share it with multiple stakeholders. I want to go back one stage. I have found that this entire subject is incredibly complex—I think we recognise the level of complexity—but sometimes I am hearing, “Oh no, that’s too complex. If we did tha…”

“That is sort of what I heard earlier, but I am not getting a specific figure. I like what I am hearing—it is powerful and it sounds good—so please do not take this as a complaint, but you have an understanding of success that I am struggling to understand. I am trying to get a shared understanding of what success looks…”

“Thank you.”

“But can you see the nervousness of the Committee? The nervousness is that you are using your judgment rather than a quantifiable target—”

“You do, but the nervousness is—I recognise that this is not fair, and I would not in any way expect you to do it—that you could just draw a massive red line that goes even further.”

“I was not asking you that; I was asking you how you will measure how many houses have been built. I do not want to change it to be a different measure of success.”

“We touched earlier on the reluctance to set a target for the number the fund will deliver, because the spread, quality and quantity of houses are the key things. As a Committee we have been picking up an awful lot and looking to judge the number of units that you deliver, but if I take it that you are actually judging …”