Speeches by Coleman.

“Okay, that is helpful. Thank you. Coming to local authorities, the person spec for the job talked about having an understanding of the “contribution local authorities make to delivering positive health outcomes.” When the Secretary of State came to see the Committee, he said he did not think that local government feels…”

“So it might lead to cuts in hospital funding?”

“Zero-based budgeting is, of course, a good way to go in any system, but the NHS is obviously a system unlike any other, because the size and complexity make it more difficult. I get the feeling that you are saying that there is more money in the system than there was when the previous Government felt it was necessary t…”

“And that is because you do not know the money in the system?”

“Right. So, they might be being optimistic, but you do not know?”

“I also welcome the statement by the Deputy Prime Minister. The people in my constituency of Chelsea and Fulham stand shoulder to shoulder with the people who lived in Grenfell Tower, who have suffered hugely. The pain is still felt throughout the whole community. I am delighted to hear my hon. Friend the Member for Ken…”

“I talked about double running because, in meetings with Members of Parliament, Ministers at a very senior level in the Department of Health have said that they believe in double running. Are they perhaps being a little optimistic, given the situation in which we find ourselves?”

“Forgive me, but I guess I am pressing you on this because it is a particularly live issue. I am declaring my interest because in North West London, Andrew Lansley brought out a document, which I know you are familiar with, called “Shaping a Healthier Future”. It would have closed the A&E in Ealing hospital and Charing …”

“The place being what?”

“If the hospitals did not become more efficient, would you shift money from hospitals—cut hospitals’ funding—in favour of primary and community care anyway?”

“So you would make hospitals more efficient, save some money there, take that money and spend it in primary and community care. Is that right?”

“Thank you very much.”

“That is interesting. I guess I was coming from a different place from where I have the impression that you are coming from. It was in terms of the potential for hospitals to do more in the community. However, as we move towards the focus being on community and primary care, that obviously needs funding. There is a lot …”

“Hospitals do, by and large, a brilliant job, but no one in the system is perfect. Hospitals do not have a direct incentive to keep people out of hospital, or to keep people supported by social care at home so that they can live independently and so that any hospital entry is delayed by, perhaps, a decade. How can we in…”

“Okay. I would like to come back to the relationship with the NHS and local authorities. Perhaps that would be a better way to enter that. I will pick up on this. You noted that I tried to probe a bit with Julian Kelly about hospitals. Prevention is what I would like to start by talking about. Prevention has been seen l…”

“She is still the chair. Maybe I am one of the vested interests you referred to, Penny. Would that be the case?”

“I should begin by declaring that Dr Dash and I know each other. I had the pleasure of serving on the integrated care board for North West London while she was Chair, until I was elected.”

“That is a great question. How does NHS England take a role in that?”

“It is good to see your enthusiasm for that, and thank you for your praise for what is going on in North West London—it is very exciting. I am going to ask you a completely different last question. We have bombarded you with questions here; some have been tougher, and some have been easier. However, you and I have also …”

“It is great to see you all. I have had the pleasure of working with Anita on the North West London integrated board as a member. I have known Emily for many years and the work she does for carers. Oonagh, it is good to meet you properly. It is very interesting to hear how you make the link between economic growth, cari…”