Speeches by Gardiner.

“That 15% is going to reduce it by 45%?”

“Great.”

“Sorry, was that, “Yes, I do think it is an adequate response”?”

“When you get back to us to let us know whether you agree with the OEP’s assessment that the EA has broken the law—and if it is the case that you agree with the OEP’s assessment—could you also say what action you propose to take against the Environment Agency for breaking the law? You will know it has said that it has u…”

“I know who they are, absolutely.”

“I thought you might have done so already, given the Office for Environmental Protection said it.”

“That is why I am asking whether you feel it is ambitious enough simply to be tackling one in seven storm overflows, but let us move on. Since privatisation, England’s water companies have dumped more sewage year on year into our rivers and seas. Every year, there is more. In 2024, there were nearly a million sewage dum…”

“So you will know that these storm overflows have been responsible for people’s deaths, have caused severe illness for many members of the public and are causing the Department’s own analysis to report that rivers in England are in a terrible state.”

“No, I am not trying to reduce it. I am pointing out that, if we are intending to fix only one in seven—I take it you have seen “Dirty Business”—”

“So the Government plan to make improvements to about one in seven storm overflows over a five-year period, during which bills will increase by roughly a third. Secretary of State, do you think that is acceptable progress?”

“Mr Law, you look keen to interject at this point.”

“What is that good for?”

“Indirectly will do.”

“There is another question, I suppose. We rehearsed the argument—you were there, so you heard it all—about why Government had incentivised the draining of the moorlands. Why is it that the Moorland Association is so keen to have what it calls controlled burning? Why does it not prefer cutting to burning? Why does it not…”

“Could you delve into it further and write to us?”

“Thank you. That is a helpful clarification. The final question that I had is probably for you, Mr Rockliff. It is in two parts. Do you agree that controlled burns raise the water table, as Mr Gilruth suggested to the Committee? He said that the evidence was that controlled burns raise the water table.”

“Is it 8% or 12% now? It used to be that 6% had been inspected in the past five years. SSSIs are, in effect, not worth the name that—”

“Let us accept a written response. Very briefly, going back to what we were talking about before, Mr Law, you talked about a modernised monitoring regime, but you also said that 80% of sites were in an unfavourable condition. You said that the figure of 6%, 8% or 12%, whichever it was, of SSSIs not being monitored was n…”

“I know what it is about. Sorry, I am being really mean to you because I am asking you to be specific and not just give me a sweetie-wrapper answer.”

“I asked what progress has been made in implementing the recommendations. What you have said is that we have been getting people together to try to do the sort of co-ordinated land management that is required. What progress has been made?”