Speeches by Gardiner.

“But your target is for a 27% drop in emissions from livestock, not a 27% drop in meat consumption or livestock. It is the emissions from the sector.”

“Well, you raised the carbon border adjustment mechanism, not me.”

“The problem with the CBAM, though, is that unless you put that money back into the developing countries, you are in effect putting a tariff on them and becoming protectionist, so the other countries will never be able to afford to decarbonise in the way we want. So CBAM is a double-edged sword, isn’t it?”

“The more you go towards intensification and corral the livestock together, the more you increase the need for steroids, hormones and other interventions, but that is perhaps another conversation. Finally, if we are going to prioritise livestock reduction, should we prioritise it in particular areas of the country, look…”

“I would like to pursue this further with you, but I think I need to move on because the Chair is looking at me sideways—maybe we can talk about it afterwards. You talked about farmers, and you have said that a 27% reduction in cattle or sheep is needed by 2040. That is fairly blunt, but it is because of the methane emi…”

“You spoke about the mechanisms that are going to be required for the peatland restoration and additional woodland. That is certainly required to meet your balanced pathway, because a huge amount of that is in peatland and forestry. Together, they probably even exceed livestock emissions reductions, such as methane redu…”

“Let me bundle two points together. First, will the Climate Change Committee make a response to the consultation itself?”

“I now want to focus on LULUCF—land use, land-use change and forestry. The Government’s consultation on the land use framework suggests that 9% of agricultural land will have to become non-agricultural. In addition, they reckon that perhaps 10% must incorporate more climate measures as part of its management. The Secret…”

““Absolutely” was good enough for me.”

“Your advice on the seventh carbon budget notes that the Government have not yet put in place the regulations under section 30 of the 2008 Act formally to include international aviation and shipping emissions. Should it be a recommendation of this Committee that the Government do so forthwith?”

“What policies from Government are needed to achieve that, and what recommendations should this Committee make to ensure that it happens?”

“Before you do that, can you explain why the European report said that the potential growth in SAF, for all the things that you just said, would meet only the increase in demand, and therefore emissions would be the same as they are currently?”

“No, but it is here: “land use, land use change, and forestry”.”

“That was raising the price.”

“As you well know, the European report said that only enough SAF would be made by 2040 to meet the increase in demand in aviation, so the emissions would be the same.”

“Are there any mandates from Government on the industry to do those things?”

“Well, Emily Nurse said—and I quote her directly—“For aviation, there is currently no credible way to achieve zero emissions by 2050.” That was towards the end of last year. How do you reconcile that with this new “everything’s wonderful and optimistic” approach that the committee seems to be adopting, exemplified by wh…”

“Yes.”

“Ms Pinchbeck, can I first put on record my admiration for the work that you do and the way in which you provide Parliament, this Committee and the Government with science-based evidence? Having said that, is Emily Nurse still the head of net zero?”

“There is a threat, but there is also an opportunity. What measures is my right hon. Friend taking to combat trade leakage and the diversion of goods produced in countries hit by high US tariffs, which may dump their products in the UK, undercutting our domestic producers? What steps is he taking to encourage manufactur…”