Speeches by Slaughter.

“We are getting the message that the system is dynamic. We got that at the last hearing on the courts backlog as well. You are saying that the concrete measures such as increasing the number of prison cells will not resolve the issue on its own. Other issues such as reducing recidivism are long-term strategies. Are you …”

“I will stop here, because I am very sympathetic to the situation you are in; I just cannot see the way out of it. If I were a magistrate sentencing, if it was on the cusp and I was deciding between a short custodial and a community sentence, which I may not even have the choice of in a short time, and if I asked questi…”

“That is my point, or it is another side of the same coin. We hear from magistrates that they are reluctant to sentence for community sentences for the very reason that they think people are going to have a soft ride, not be supervised and get away with murder—well, not murder, obviously.”

“Those less serious, less dangerous offenders are exactly the type of offender who, if the Gauke review recommends alternatives to custody, there is going to be a flood more of coming out. The expectation among everyone, from the public to the sentencers, is going to be that they have a high degree of supervision and th…”

“Probation officers and PSOs, yes.”

“You are constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul here. What is your equivalent to the 99% figure for probation? If you have a 99% filled establishment for prison officers, what is it for probation?”

“Yes. In some ways the situation seems to be more acute with probation officers in terms of that recruitment process. We know there are a lot of risks. There are serious further offence risks that the Probation Service is understandably cautious about. What is your overall feeling about the Probation Service’s ability t…”

“Probation officers.”

“I raised it now because you just alluded to the implications for other parts of the system. I went with the Justice Committee up to Manchester to look at Buckley Hall prison—which I am sure you know; I am sure nothing gets past the officials—and to talk to Greater Manchester Probation Service. Although prison officer n…”

“I have some questions on probation. Shall I keep them for later?”

“Right, and there are no plans to reintroduce them. It is running at 90% of its previous capacity.”

“So 10%. When did that happen? When were those 10% taken away?”

“Of how many places in the whole prison?”

“Is that 150 cells?”

“How many?”

“There are a lot of prisons in crisis at the moment, not just in terms of their physical state. One solution to that might be to close a wing or to redistribute prisoners in some way. Again, that has big operational effects and could temporarily at least reduce the number of available places. Is anything like that going…”

“You are paying a lot of money for it. Is it to the Duchy of Cornwall?”

“What is the position with Dartmoor?”

“I have one last question on this issue. I will use the example of Dartmoor, which is closed as we speak. I do not know whether you have a prospective reopening date. Do you have any other situations like that, or potential situations, where substantial numbers—not game-changing perhaps, but substantial numbers—of priso…”

“Does the Solicitor General agree that what the shadow Solicitor General is asking her to do, in a not very subtle way, is to breach the Law Officers’ convention by the back door? If the Attorney General were to reveal whether or not he is able to advise on a particular issue, that would reveal the fact that he had been…”