Speeches by Pakes.

“If we invite you back next year, do you think you would be able to say it is a simpler structure that we would understand, or is it a longer-term ambition to simplify?”

“In some earlier answers, you talked to Jenny and others about the importance of collaboration, working together, and consultation. Can I ask you about a particular example which my exceptional colleague, the hon. Member for Lowestoft, has been raising with me, knowing my interest in the issue? She says Kessingland in h…”

“If we invite you back next year, do you think you would be able to say it is a simpler structure that we would understand, or is it a longer-term ambition to simplify?”

“From my estimation, about a quarter of customers’ bills are currently used to service your debt levels. Do you think that is the right place for customers when we look at our bills?”

“I thank the Minister for bringing the statement to the House and for showing such honesty about the challenges in the scheme. May I urge him not to take any lectures from the Conservative party, which oversaw chaos in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and a £300 million underspend? That is a shamef…”

“My calculation is that it is broadly about 24% of customers’ bills currently.”

“Heidi, as chief executive, you have just heard a colleague on behalf of your company say it does not matter; it is not taken into account. How comfortable are you at looking us and the public in our eyes and saying, “In our model, it does not matter how much sewage we pump out; that is an irrelevant factor to the amoun…”

“I will try to be brief and mindful of time. I hope you can understand why we are asking these questions around environmental performance and financial performance. These are big issues for our constituents and the public, rightly so, and it does sometimes feel like these discussions are a bit like play your cards right…”

“So it is long-term regulated as opposed to in-year performance? Your answer in a slightly less gameshow, more “Yes, Minister,” way of answering was that it is regulated, therefore that does not matter.”

“At what point would your environmental performance matter in terms of the dividends you are paying?”

“How does that relate then? What is the direct link in that answer to hundreds of thousands of litres of raw sewage being pumped out? Is the direct link that the performance measure is so low that it does not matter, or is it that the direct link is not direct?”

“Let us be really specific. We have all talked about really significant sums of raw sewage. We can say that is part of a basket of environmental measures. Does the amount of raw sewage that gets pumped out by yourselves as a company have a direct link to how you pay dividends?”

“Do you understand why people are really angry in this country at big profitable companies such as yourselves taking out huge dividends that can then sit here and just say no to something of national significance?”

“Heidi, as chief executive, you have just heard a colleague on behalf of your company say it does not matter; it is not taken into account. How comfortable are you at looking us and the public in our eyes and saying, “In our model, it does not matter how much sewage we pump out; that is an irrelevant factor to the amoun…”

“I do think complex organisations like yourselves can look at more than one metric at one time, so let me rephrase. Personally, as chief executive, from this day onward, now that you have said it has been recognised, do you believe the amount of sewage that you put out should be factored into dividends and your executiv…”

“So why was it not included to this point?”

“In November 2024, it was reported that Northumbrian Water executives received £315,000 in bonuses despite sitting on Ofwat’s elevated concern watch list. Is that right?”

“But not linked to the amount of sewage you are pumping out?”

“Moving aside from the independent committee, you are personally comfortable with having criteria for a bonus that will be quite literally more than most people in this country earn in a year. You are comfortable with that not having any performance-related element around the amount of sewage you are pumping out.”

“That is an answer to a different question. The question I asked was whether you, as a senior British business leader, are comfortable receiving a bonus payment based on criteria that do not reflect the environmental performance of sewage, which is one of the major products and anger points. You are personally, as an in…”