Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this afternoon’s meeting of the Welsh Affairs Committee. My name is Ruth Jones, and I am the Chair of the Committee. Today we are holding a pre-appointment hearing with Delyth Evans, the Government’s preferred candidate for Chair of the S4C board. Thank you very much, Ms Evans, for coming here in person to speak to us. That is much appreciated. We know that S4C is a vital Welsh institution that provides a service in Welsh of which we, as Welsh people, are very proud. We also know that S4C has had its fair share of challenges over recent years, and it will see many more challenges in the next few years, in securing funding and continuing to adapt to an ever-changing media landscape. We are obviously very pleased to have you in front of us today, Ms Evans. First, I will just check: do any members of the Committee have any interests to declare today? No. In that case, if you are content, Ms Evans, we will go straight into questions. Is that okay?

Of course.

Brilliant. Obviously, you are here today as the Government’s preferred candidate. Can you tell us a little about why you are the best person for this role?

I would refer to three specific areas. The first is my experience of governance. I have been a board member of a number of organisations in the public sector and the charity sector. I have quite deep experience of working at board level and chairing committees, so I understand all the requirements and expectations of good governance in an organisation. The second thing, which is very important, is my commitment to the Welsh language and my understanding of the position of the Welsh language in Welsh life and of the challenges facing the language, particularly in some of our heartland communities. I feel that I have a very good understanding of the importance of supporting the language, and of S4C’s key role in doing that. The third thing I would mention is that I started my career as a journalist by working at what was then called HTV Wales—ITV was HTV in those days—and being part of programmes for S4C. I worked on the S4C current affairs flagship programme, “Y Byd ar Bedwar”. I therefore feel that I have quite a good understanding of the independent television sector in Wales, the importance of its role and the value of those jobs for Wales.

That is a good overview. Obviously, you are very aware, as we are, of the turmoil at S4C in recent history—in the last few years. Why are you the best leader in terms of that turmoil, if I can put it like that?

I think I would be a very good person to take on this role, for three reasons. The first is that I feel so committed to S4C as an organisation because of my belief in and recognition of the importance of the channel for the future of the language. I am deeply committed to that, which I think is terribly important. I am also a huge supporter of the creative industries in Wales, and of the role that the creative industries play in the Welsh economy and Welsh life. We have had a great many success stories come out of the creative industries in Wales over the years, but particularly in recent years. This is a very vibrant, buoyant and successful industry in Wales, and I know that members of this Committee will share in its success. S4C plays a vital role in that, so I believe that my commitment to the creative industries sector puts me in a very strong position to take on this role. The third reason why I think I am the right person for this role at this time is that when the news broke in 2023 of the failure of leadership at S4C, I was shocked, as an awful lot of people were, but I was also alarmed because I think I had taken S4C for granted up until that point. It was an established part of Welsh life, Welsh media and Welsh culture. We were all very comfortable with it as a broadcaster in Wales. It was something that an awful lot of people felt very proud of. When the crisis emerged, I felt very alarmed because all of a sudden it seemed precarious. We could not take the future of S4C for granted in the way that we had in the past. It seemed a moment of crisis. I was not alone in thinking that; I know a lot of people who felt at the time that it was a very serious moment. When it became apparent that new leadership was required, I thought very hard about what was needed to turn the organisation around and to have a bit of a reset of S4C. I felt that at this point in my career, given my expertise, my commitment to the things that I have already mentioned, and my leadership style, I am the right person to take on this role. I should say that I do not underestimate the challenge. A few people have said to me, “You’re very brave.” I do not think of it as being brave, but it is a big task. That is partly because of the need to turn the organisation around internally, to create a new culture and to reshape the organisation from the inside, but also because of the challenges facing public service broadcasting more generally, which are very big challenges, as the Committee knows. Given all that, I was keen to put my name forward and pleased to be selected as the preferred candidate.

In your responses to our questionnaire, you identified some development areas for you in the role, which is very admirable. What activity have you undertaken, or do you intend to undertake, to help you upskill to take on the role?

I mentioned the challenge of artificial intelligence. I recently read a book by Mustafa Suleyman called, “The Coming Wave”. Mustafa Suleyman is one of the creators of artificial intelligence. He set up DeepMind, which was then bought by Google, so he is one of the people who understands AI better than anybody else—he understands its potential and its dangers. There is no sector of the economy or aspect of life that is going to be immune from the influence of AI in the future. I think the creative industries will be at the forefront of having to wrestle with the challenges of AI. I want to make sure that S4C is well placed to understand those challenges—both to deal with the threat and to seize the opportunities. I am very keen to upskill in that particular area, and I am very open to understanding what is happening within the organisation to move forward on that front and to take expert advice where necessary. The other area I mentioned in my response was sports rights. Sport is a really important part of S4C’s output, and S4C has significant audiences for sport. My partner is not a Welsh speaker, but he is there every Saturday afternoon watching “Sgorio” and absorbing the Welsh commentary. Sports rights are very important to S4C. I know this is an area on which the Committee has taken a strong stand in recent years because of the importance of making sure that national sporting events are free to view. I understand that Ofcom is already looking at this area. It is fair to say that, in the past, S4C has done a very good job of securing free-to-view access to big sporting events, and I would very much like to see that continue, but there are challenges with that because of streaming and subscription services. That is an area I would like to get my head around a bit more to understand what Ofcom is doing. I recognise that it is a very important area.

Across the range of your responsibilities, for what support will you look to your fellow board members in your role as Chair?

I am Chair of the board, but the other board members are incredibly important. Five new non-executive board members will be appointed, and I shall be relying heavily on them, as well as on the existing board members and the executive team, to build a very strong and cohesive board. That is my first objective: to build a strong board that works very closely together as a team. You will be aware that S4C is now a unitary board, and that is in the new Media Act. To me, that seems very important in taking S4C forward. It is also important that we work in a very open way, built on trust and mutual respect, so that we can lead the organisation effectively. Guto Bebb, a former Member of Parliament, was the interim Chair during this very difficult period, and he played a really important role. I would like to thank him for the work he has done. I would also like to thank Sioned Wiliam, who stepped in as interim chief executive. She did a very, very good job of stabilising the organisation. Subject to being confirmed in the role, I see this as a reset. There will be new board members, with the existing non-execs and the executive team providing stability. It is a new era for S4C, as I would like it to be, and I will be relying heavily on all of those board members. The new board members will bring a great deal of expertise, skills and achievement in their own fields, and they will all be completely committed to a successful future for S4C. I will be depending on them but giving them strong leadership and setting a very clear culture.

Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi, Ms Evans, am ddod prynhawn yma. Mewn ateb i un o’r cwestiynau eraill yn yr holiadur, rydych chi’n sôn am y pwysigrwydd o drawsnewid diwylliant o fewn y sianel. Roeddwn i’n gobeithio y gallech chi ymhelaethu rhywfaint ar yr hyn rydych chi’n meddwl sydd angen ei drawsnewid, a sut byddech chi’n gobeithio gwireddu’r trawsnewidiad hynny. (Translation) Thank you very much, Ms Evans, for joining us this afternoon. In your response to one of the other questions in the questionnaire, you talk about the importance of transforming the culture within the channel. I was hoping that perhaps you could elaborate a little on what you feel needs to be transformed and how you hope to fulfil that transformation.

Y peth pwysig yw bod yna arweiniad clir iawn yn dod oddi wrth y bwrdd. Felly, mae sefydlu diwylliant clir iawn o arweinyddiaeth y bwrdd yn bwysig ac mae egwyddorion Nolan yn ganolog i hynny. Dydw i ddim yn mynd i restru nhw i gyd nawr, ond rwy’n gyfarwydd â nhw i gyd a rwy’n meddwl taw dyna’r union werthoedd sydd eu hangen mewn arweinyddiaeth a mewn Cadeirydd. Rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr efo’r egwyddorion hynny a bydden i’n disgwyl eu byw yn fy arweinyddiaeth. Peth arall sy’n bwysig o ran newid diwylliant yw, pan fod problemau’n codi tu fewn i’r sefydliad—a mae wastad problemau yn mynd i godi mewn unrhyw sefydliad—bod pobl yn teimlo bod nhw’n gallu dod â’r problemau hynny i’r bwrdd, bod yna ddim ofn trafod problemau, a bod y bwrdd yn rhoi cyfle i’r weithrediaeth ddod â’r trafferthion a’u trafod nhw’n agored cyn bod pethau’n mynd yn rhy ddifrifol ac yn chwythu lan. Mae bod yn agored ac yn barod i drafod y pethau sy’n mynd yn dda, ond hefyd y pethau sydd ddim yn mynd yn dda, yn rhan o’r diwylliant bydden i’n trio creu. Peth arall sy’n bwysig o ran creu diwylliant yw bod yn bresennol a bod pobl yn gweld y Cadeirydd o gwmpas y lle. Mae gan S4C tair swyddfa: yng Nghaerdydd, Caerfyrddin a Chaernarfon. Rwy’n meddwl bod e’n bwysig bod y person sydd yn Gadeirydd yn weledol i’r staff fel bod y staff yn gallu cael hyder yn y Cadeirydd ac yn teimlo bod y Cadeirydd yn rhan presennol o’r sefydliad, ond bod y Cadeirydd hefyd yn gallu gweld beth sy’n mynd ymlaen yn y swyddfeydd a phigo lan ar unrhyw drafferthion neu awyrgylch anhapus, er enghraifft. Dyna’r prif ffyrdd bydden i’n trio eu dilyn wrth arwain diwylliant newydd. (Translation) The important thing very clear leadership from the board. Establishing a very clear culture of board leadership is therefore important, and the Nolan principles are central to that. I am not going to list them all now, but I am familiar with all of them, and I think they are the exact values that both the leadership and the Chair need. I totally agree with those principles, and I would expect to live those principles in my leadership. Another thing that is important in terms of culture change, when problems arise within an organisation—and problems will always arise in any organisation—is that people feel able to bring those problems to the board, that there is no fear about discussing problems and that the board gives the executive an opportunity to bring the problems and discuss them openly before things become too serious and blow up. Being open and willing to discuss the things that are going well, but also the things that are not going well, is part of the culture that I would try to create. Another thing that is important in creating a culture is being present. People should see the Chair around the place. S4C has three offices—in Cardiff, Carmarthen and Caernarfon. I think it is important that the Chair is visible to the staff so that the staff can feel confidence in the Chair, and feel that the Chair is a present part of the organisation, but also that the Chair is able to see what is going on within the offices and pick up on any difficulties or any unhappy atmosphere, for example. Those are the main paths that I would try to follow when leading a new culture.

Yn amlwg rydych chi, o bosib, ar fin cychwyn y gwaith o wneud hynny, ond a oes yna unrhyw rwystrau rydych chi’n rhagweld fyddai’n gwneud y gwaith o drawsnewid y diwylliant yn fwy heriol? (Translation) Clearly you may be about to start that work. Do you see any potential barriers that may make the work of transforming the culture more challenging?

Rwy’n meddwl bod adennill hyder yn S4C yn bwysig. Rwyf wedi deall gan y weithrediaeth bod gwaith da wedi bod yn mynd ymlaen yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf i newid y diwylliant ac i greu safonau ymddygiad newydd, prosesau hyfforddiant ac yn y blaen. Mae hynny i gyd yn bwysig, ond dwi ddim yn mynd i gymryd hwnna fel y mae ar yr wyneb; rwyf eisiau gwneud yn siŵr bod hwnna yn digwydd a’i fod wedi ymgorffori’n gryf y tu fewn i’r sefydliad. Mae yna her fanna ynglŷn â gwneud yn siŵr bod yr hyder yn dod yn ôl, ond hefyd bod hyder ymysg y sector yn ehangach hefyd, bod pobl yn teimlo bod S4C nawr ar y trac cywir a bod ganddyn nhw ffydd yn y ffordd mae’n gweithredu. Felly, ennyn yr hyder yna, i fi, yw un o’r pethau pwysicaf. (Translation) I think that regaining confidence in S4C is important. I understand from the executive that good work has been going on in the past year to change the culture and create new standards of conduct, training processes and so forth. All of that is important, but I am not going to take it at face value; I want to make sure that that is happening and that it is strongly embedded within the body. There is a challenge there in ensuring that confidence returns, but also that there is confidence among the sector more widely, that people feel that S4C is now on the right track and that they have confidence in the way it operates. So creating that confidence; for me, that is one of the most important things.

Ms Evans, good afternoon. Given the recent history of S4C, to which you have alluded in earlier answers, a “steady the ship” approach might be seen as the dominant priority, and possibly even as the benchmark for success. You have also intimated that you see much wider demands. Could you set out for us your other priorities? How would you like to be able to describe S4C at the end of your term of office?

Good question!

I do my best.

I would certainly like to describe it as a very well-run, high-impact organisation delivering value for money to licence fee payers. Being very well run means strong governance and very effective processes within the board and within the organisation. Providing high-quality content across a wide range of platforms and being distinctive is very important, but it is also about playing a vital role in the wider creative sector and having the confidence of the sector more generally, working in partnership. Good governance, distinctive content and strong partnerships in the sector are the three things that at the end of my term I would like to say had been achieved.

Within that, do you see a role for S4C—and indeed for yourself as Chair, if confirmed—in ensuring that by the end of your term in office we see more people speaking Welsh and watching S4C comfortably? What priority do you see for assisting Welsh language education as part of your role as Chair?

I see it as a very important part of the role. I have said already that I am very committed to the future of the Welsh language and understand fully the importance of S4C in delivering that. I do not think that you can overestimate the importance within families in Wales of having devices and television sets giving people Welsh in their day-to-day life. It is incredibly important, particularly where children are attending Welsh schools but may not have Welsh in the family. As the Chair will know, there are now four Welsh medium primary schools in Newport, which is astonishing. When I was young, there was one Welsh medium primary in Cardiff, which I attended. S4C is incredibly important in making the language visible and accessible to people across Wales. Audiences are a massive challenge. I will not pretend that I am comfortable with the viewing figures—I am not; we want to see more people viewing S4C overall—but in a landscape where there is so much choice, I very much hope that over the period we could maintain audiences. I would love to see us building new audiences, but we should definitely maintain audiences and we should certainly reach out to key audiences like young people and Welsh learners. S4C has recently established a memorandum of understanding with the Welsh Government to produce programmes specifically in line with the Welsh 2025 objective. I very much want to see us delivering on the particular objectives in respect of young people and learners. The Welsh language service aspect is absolutely central to my belief in the importance of the channel.

I attended one of the primary schools in Cardiff that taught Welsh for a year, and then South Glamorgan county council described it as a dead or dying language and it was ended, so I share your celebration of the renaissance of Welsh education. You will have assessed S4C’s current strategic priorities. Some of those will be dated and will not have been reviewed by an interim Chair; that is quite proper, because the interim Chair just holds the reins for a short period. Based on your assessment of the current strategic priorities, are you seeking to change or add to any of them?

I have looked at the strategy and it seems to me to be the right one. There are areas where I would seek reassurance. For instance, as we are all aware, there is a general move away from terrestrial television to online viewing, and there is a challenge for Governments and politicians to understand what that means for terrestrial television going forward. There are particular audiences in Wales who are very dependent on terrestrial television—older people like my mother, and rural communities in particular. It is very important that we look after those audiences and that they are not disadvantaged by a move away from terrestrial television. It is also true of people in deprived areas who cannot afford subscription channels. Although S4C’s strategy is looking to move viewers and content to online platforms, and that is the right strategy, the other side of the strategy has to address the needs of rural viewers, older viewers and people in deprived areas. I am not sure that they have got the strategy entirely right on that; I would certainly want to explore it further. I am very pleased that you have brought up the Welsh language in particular, because there seem to be two things going on here. There was a report in the paper this morning about the declining use of Welsh among certain groups, and we know that the trend is still downward in many areas of Wales, including in the heartlands, which is very upsetting for an awful lot of people like me. On the other hand, there is a huge amount of energy and vibrancy in the Welsh-speaking communities. I am on the board of the Urdd, and the Urdd Eisteddfod is taking place in Margam next month. There were 80,000 children and young people taking part in preliminary eisteddfodau for Margam. That is 80,000 children and young people singing, reciting, performing on stage and developing fantastic skills. A lot of this is happening in an area of Wales where Welsh is not the dominant language by any means. You have only to listen to Radio Cymru in the morning to hear about all the fantastic events that are happening all around Wales—concerts, community events, poetry readings. There is a huge amount of activity going on through the medium of Welsh. That is incredibly exciting, yet at the same time the language, we know, is still under massive pressure. I struggle with those two narratives, because they are two things going on at once, which are in conflict. It puts a lot of pressure on people who care about the language to keep working and support the language in the ways that we can, and on S4C. I should also say that I think it is incredibly important that politicians both in Cardiff and in Westminster have been so supportive of the language. Again, I do not think we can take that for granted. Every generation has to decide of its own accord whether it cares enough about the language to fight for it. So far, that has happened, and I welcome that. Q9             Steve Witherden: Turning to the shorter term, what will be your immediate priorities and actions on taking up the role?

My immediate actions would be to establish the culture of the board and the kind of leadership that is required. I have talked about that already, but I would get the new board working together in an open, inclusive and trusting way from day one. The second thing would be to establish a good relationship with the chief executive, because that is incredibly important. I have worked in a number of organisations, both on the board side and as a chief executive myself, and I know how important that relationship is. It is the key relationship in any organisation. If the relationship between the chief executive and the Chair works well, you have a good chance of running a good organisation. If the relationship is dysfunctional, you are in deep trouble—that is where trouble starts. Establishing that very strong relationship with the chief executive is an important priority. I should say, though, that that relationship should not be exclusive. I think it very important to have other channels into the executive, so that I am not entirely dependent on the chief executive for what is going on in the organisation, and so that I have other ways of feeling my way around how things are going and being alert to any problems that might arise. The third thing I would do is get to grips very quickly with what has been going on in the past year to improve the culture and the leadership and to introduce new processes for whistleblowing, complaints and so on that are actually going to work and ensure that what happened previously will not happen again.

Yr her o greu neu arwain corff sydd wedi bod trwy gyfnod anodd iawn er mwyn ei drawsnewid—dwi’n defnyddio’r gair yna mewn ffordd meddylgar iawn; mae angen trawsnewid a dwi am weld hynny’n digwydd—a sefydlu S4C fel corff sy’n darparu ar ran cynulleidfaoedd. Yr her ehangach yw’r un mae pob darlledwr gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn ei gwynebu, sef sut i gynnal cynulleidfaoedd. Fel arweinydd y bwrdd, mae’n bwysig iawn fy mod i’n arwain y gwaith hwnnw ac yn gwneud yn siŵr bod strategaeth S4C yn gywir ac yn briodol ar gyfer yr her fawr yna. Y trydydd pwynt yw gwerth am arian. Hynny yw, sicrhau bod S4C fel corff yn creu gwerth am arian ac yn gweithio’n agos iawn gyda’r cwmnïau teledu annibynnol yng Nghymru i sicrhau hwnna ac i ddarparu beth mae gwylwyr eisiau gweld. Gwylwyr ifanc yw’r her fwyaf. Fel rydym ni’n gwybod, dydyn nhw ddim yn gwylio’r teledu yn y ffordd roedd fy nghenhedlaeth i’n gwylio’r teledu. Maen nhw’n defnyddio dyfeisiau hollol wahanol ac mae pethau gwahanol iawn yn apelio atyn nhw. Trio cael S4C yn y lle iawn i ddarparu cynnwys y mae’r bobl ifanc yna yn mynd i fwynhau yw un o’r heriau mwyaf. (Translation) There is the challenge of creating or leading a body that has been through a very difficult period in order to transform it—I use that word in a very considered way; transformation is needed, and I want to see that happening—and to establish S4C as an organisation that delivers on behalf of audiences. The wider challenge is one that all public service broadcasters face: how to maintain audiences. As the leader of the board, it is very important that I should lead that work and ensure that S4C’s strategy is accurate and appropriate for that major challenge. The third point is about value for money: ensuring that S4C, as a body, creates value for money and works very closely with the independent television companies in Wales to ensure that and to provide what viewers want to see. Young viewers are the greatest challenge because, as we know, they do not watch television in the way my generation would watch television. They use totally different devices and very different things appeal to them, so trying to get S4C in the right place to provide content those young people will enjoy is one of the biggest challenges.

Mae’n bwysig dweud mai nid rhywun yn ei 60au yw, efallai, y person gorau i ddeall yn union beth mae pobl ifanc eisiau gwylio ar y teledu. Rydw i’n ymwybodol iawn o hynny, a bydden i ddim yn trio mynegi barn bersonol ar y cynnwys yna. Y peth pwysig yw ein bod ni’n cael y bobl iawn y tu fewn i S4C sydd yn deall anghenion, chwaeth, disgwyliadau a diddordebau pobl ifanc, ac yn gallu comisiynu’r math o raglenni sy’n mynd i weithio iddyn nhw. Ein rôl ar y bwrdd, yn enwedig ymysg yr aelodau anweithredol, yw gwneud yn siŵr bod y cynnwys a’r comisiynu yna yn bodloni safonau S4C o ran cynhyrchu, y Gymraeg ac yn ariannol, a’n bod ni’n comisiynu mewn ffordd agored sy’n ddealladwy i’r comisiynwyr ac sy’n driw i’n gwerthoedd fel cwmni a fel rhan o ddiwylliant Cymru. Dwi’n meddwl wnaeth Ofcom gyhoeddi adroddiad y llynedd oedd yn dangos mai’r pethau oedd pobl yng Nghymru yn gwerthfawrogi ynglŷn â’r BBC ac S4C oedd y ffaith eu bod nhw’n darparu cynnwys oedd yn cynrychioli pobl fel nhw ac yn disgrifio eu cymunedau nhw. Hynny yw, mae Netflix a’r holl lefydd eraill yn gwneud rhaglenni drama ffantastig, ond dydyn nhw ddim yn wahaniaethol o ran cynulleidfaoedd Cymraeg. Dyna lle mae cryfder S4C; sef darparu cynnwys, yn enwedig i bobl ifanc, y maen nhw’n gallu uniaethu ag e, ac sy’n eu helpu nhw i ddeall y byd o’u cwmpas. Dyna’r ffordd i fynd. (Translation) It is important to say that someone in their 60s is perhaps not the best person to understand exactly what young people want to watch on television. I am very aware of that, and I would not try to express a personal view on that content. The important thing is that we get the right people in place within S4C who do understand the needs, tastes, expectations and interests of young people, and who are able to commission the kind of programmes that will work for them. Our role on the board, particularly that of the non-executive directors, is to ensure that that content and that commissioning live up to S4C standards in terms of production, Welsh language and finance, and that we commission in an open manner that is understandable to the commissioners and true to our values as a company and as a part of Wales’s culture. I think Ofcom published a report last year that showed that the things that people in Wales appreciated about the BBC and S4C was that they provided content that was representative of people like them, and described their communities. Netflix and many others offer fantastic drama, but they are not distinctive in terms of Welsh audiences. That is where S4C’s strength lies: providing content, particularly for young people, that they can identify with, and that helps them to understand the world around them. That is the way to go.

Can I make a plea? Your answers are very full. We want to make sure we can get all the questions in, so could we have some slightly briefer answers, please?

Of course.

Mae fy nghwestiwn ynglŷn ag ariannu S4C. Shwt ydych chi’n teimlo gallwn ni amddiffyn sefyllfa ariannol S4C, gan ystyried bod y Gweinidogion yn dweud bod y siarter yn cael ei adolygu diwedd y flwyddyn yma? Shwt ydyn ni’n gallu sicrhau ein bod ni’n ariannu’r sianel yn llawn, fel ein bod ni’n sicrhau dyfodol y sianel i ni yng Nghymru? (Translation) My question is about the funding of S4C. How do you feel we can protect the S4C’s financial position, considering that Ministers are stating that the charter will be reviewed at the end of this year? How do we ensure that we fully fund the channel, so that we can secure its future for us in Wales?

Rwy’n meddwl bod y trefniadau ariannol presennol—bod S4C yn cael ei ariannu drwy’r ffi drwydded—yn gweithio’n effeithiol. Bydden i’n hoffi gweld y berthynas yna’n parhau. Wrth gwrs, mae’r ffi drwydded hefyd yn dibynnu ar ystyriaethau’r siarter, ond bydden i’n hoffi meddwl byddai’r cytundeb yna’n parhau. Y peth pwysig i S4C yw bod lefel o ariannu digonol ar gael i ddarparu’r gwasanaeth mae’n ei gynnig. Y peth pwysig i fi o ran hynny yw bod S4C yn parhau i brofi ei werth o ran yr iaith a diwylliant Cymru, ond hefyd o ran yr economi. Mae S4C yn gwneud cyfraniad mawr i economi Cymru, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd lle nad yw swyddi mor rhwydd i’w ffeindio, yn arbennig i bobl ifanc. Mae’n rhaid i S4C gyfathrebu’n effeithiol iawn pa mor bwysig yw’r gwaith mae’n gwneud, ond hefyd mae’n rhaid cadw safon y cynnwys yn ddigon uchel fel bod pobl yn gallu gweld hynny. (Translation) The current financial arrangements, whereby S4C is funded through the licence fee, work effectively, and I would like that relationship to continue. Of course, the licence fee is also subject to charter considerations, but I would like to think that that agreement will continue. The important thing for S4C is that an adequate level of funding is available to deliver the service that it offers. The important thing for me in that regard is that S4C will continue to prove its value in terms of the language and Welsh culture, but also the economy. S4C makes a very big contribution to the economy of Wales, particularly in areas where jobs are not as easy to come by, especially for young people. S4C has to communicate very effectively how important its work is, but the content also has to be maintained at a high enough standard for people to see that.

Tiny follow-up, fel maen nhw’n ddweud. Ydych chi’n meddwl bod e’n ddiogel o ran y drefn sydd gennym ni ar hyn o bryd? (Translation) A tiny follow-up question: do you think that it is secure in the current system?

Mae hwnna’n fater i’r gwleidyddion. Mae S4C wedi cael cefnogaeth gwleidyddol sydd yn ofnadwy o bwysig. Y cyfan dwi’n meddwl all S4C ei wneud yw cyfathrebu pwysigrwydd y sianel yn y ffordd mwyaf effeithiol posib, am y rhesymau rydw i wedi esbonio. Ond allwn ni ddim cymryd e’n ganiataol. Rwy’n meddwl bod hwnna’n bwysig iawn hefyd. (Translation) That is a matter for the politicians. S4C has had political support, which is vital. All I think S4C can do is communicate as effectively as we can how important the channel is for the reasons I have outlined. But we cannot take it for granted. I think that is important as well.

Rydych chi wedi cyffwrdd ar werth economaidd S4C. Mae’r cwmnïau annibynnol wedi bod yn cynhyrchu nifer o ddeunydd ar gyfer S4C, felly pa rôl ydych chi’n gweld i’r cwmnïau cynhyrchu o bob maint ledled Cymru mewn comisiynu S4C yn y dyfodol? (Translation) You have touched on the economic value of S4C. The independent companies have been producing a lot of material for S4C, so what role do you see production companies of all sizes across Wales having in S4C’s commissioning in the future?

Mae’n andros o bwysig a rwy’n gweld perthynas S4C gyda’r cwmnïau cynhyrchu fel partneriaeth. Dydw i ddim yn meddwl bod e’n sefyllfa lle mae S4C yn darparu arian a sefyll yn ôl; nid dyna sut ddylai’r berthynas weithio. Mae’n bwysig bod yna berthynas agos iawn rhwng S4C a’r cwmnïau cynhyrchu achos mae’r swyddi yna’n hanfodol mewn llawer o’n ardaloedd ni, yn enwedig ardaloedd fel Llanelli, Caerfyrddin a Chaernarfon, ac mae hwnna’n bwysig. Gwnaeth Wavehill, cwmni ymchwil economaidd, adroddiad ar effaith S4C rhyw ddwy flynedd yn ôl. Mae pob punt o arian y ffi drwydded sy’n mynd i S4C yn cynhyrchu dros £1.70 o arian yn ôl i economi Cymru. Mae’n ffigwr pwysig iawn. O ran cyfraniad economaidd S4C, mae’n andros o bwysig ac yn rheswm arall i ddiogelu i’r dyfodol. (Translation) It is tremendously important. I see the relationship S4C has with the companies as a partnership. I don’t think it is a situation where S4C provides money and stands back; that is not how the relationship should work. It is important that there is a very close relationship between S4C and the production companies, because those jobs are vital in many of our areas, particularly in places such as Llanelli, Carmarthen and Caernarfon. That is important. Wavehill, an economic research company, did a report around two years ago on the impact of S4C, and every pound of licence fee funding that goes to S4C generates over £1.70 in return to the Welsh economy. That is a very important figure. The economic contribution made by S4C is tremendously important and another reason to secure it for the future.

Yn ychwanegol i’r cwmnïau cynhyrchu, pa berthnasau eraill ydych chi’n meddwl fydd yn allweddol i chi yn eich rôl fel Cadeirydd S4C? (Translation) In addition to those production companies, what other relationships do you think will be key for you in your role as Chair of S4C?

Y BBC. Mae rôl y BBC yn gwbl allweddol i S4C. Fel rwy’n deall pethau o’r tu allan, mae’r berthynas yn gweithio’n dda iawn. Mae’r BBC yn darparu rhaglenni i S4C ond hefyd adnoddau technegol ac yn y blaen. Mae’r berthynas yna’n andros o bwysig a rwy’n ei gweld yn parhau i fod yn bwysig yn y dyfodol. Mae perthynas S4C gyda’n meistri gwleidyddol hefyd yn andros o bwysig. Fel rhywun o’r tu allan, rwyf wedi gwerthfawrogi’r gefnogaeth mae gwleidyddion wedi’i rhoi i S4C. Mae gwleidyddion yn San Steffan ac yn y Senedd yn bobl bwysig iawn i ni gydweithio hefo nhw. (Translation) The BBC. The role of the BBC is vital to S4C. As I understand things from the outside, the relationship works very well. The BBC provides programming for S4C, but also technological resources. That is a very important relationship, and I see it continuing to be important in the future. Then the S4C relationship with our political masters is very important. As an outsider, I have really appreciated the support that politicians have given S4C. Politicians in Westminster and in the Senedd are very important people for us to collaborate with. Q15        Chair: Diolch, Llinos. Ms Evans, you said in your CV that you have other board commitments. You have four other board commitments, I believe. How do you intend to juggle all those? How do you prioritise? For example, if something arose urgently in S4C and you were committed to another board that day, how would you juggle all your commitments?

I am confident that I can do that. In my written response, I outlined the number of days that I was committed to those other organisations, and it only amounts to a day or two a month. I have a lot of flexibility around my commitments to those organisations. As Chair of S4C, I would prioritise the work of S4C, and I think that would be understood by the other organisations with which I am involved. I do feel that my other roles will add value to my role at S4C—if I am confirmed in the role—because the areas that I work in are to do with children and young people, education and sport, and all those sectors are very important for S4C, so I think the insights that I gain from my roles in those areas will be beneficial to my work at S4C. It is expected that I would prioritise the work of S4C, given my role as Chair of the organisation. I do not see a problem. If the Committee has any concerns, I would be very keen to discuss them further.

We are just fleshing out what the other calls on your time are. To hear you say that you would prioritise S4C is obviously quite important to us.

Taking on board the minimum time requirements of your other roles, we are all very conscious of the scale of the task at hand, as you said in your answers. Notwithstanding your other non-S4C commitments, are you able to undertake that you would take on no further non-S4C time obligations?

Yes, I am very happy to give that undertaking.

Thank you. That is helpful.

You touched on the relationship with Government and politicians, but what kind of relationship would you like to have with Government and with Ministers in this post?

I would like to have a relationship where we can discuss very openly the challenges faced by S4C and by public service broadcasters generally. There is regular contact between S4C senior officials and senior officials in Government at a number of different levels. For me, it is about developing a relationship of respect and mutual understanding and a determination to get to grips with the issues. A lot of the issues under consideration are things that politicians will have to decide, and I would be very respectful of that. My role as Chair would be to understand the impact of those decisions on the organisation and to try to explain to the politicians if there were areas of concern, for instance, so that they are very well informed. I would hope also that, if there were difficulties in the organisation, I could bring those, as necessary, to the attention of politicians. I know that politicians do not like nasty surprises; neither would I as Chair of the organisation. If you bring people early notice of areas of concern, that usually is much more productive than dropping a time bomb. I would look forward to a very constructive relationship.

Great. You said, “The institutional independence of S4C is well established and understood by Government”, but what would you do if you ever felt that was under threat?

I would push back very robustly against any threat to the institutional independence of S4C. It is very well established. It is understood by all politicians and is widely supported, so I would be very robust in defending it if there were ever a concern, as I am sure would the rest of the board. As you all know, S4C has a lot of support in the community, so it would create an awful lot of noise. I would defend it robustly.

Ann Davies has a supplementary question.

Rydych eisioes wedi sôn am gadarnleoedd y Gymraeg, a gan amlaf mae’r rheiny yng ngorllewin Cymru. Mae yna gadarnleoedd cryf yn datblygu yn y de nawr hefyd, yng Nghaerdydd yn arbennig. Beth ydych chi’n gweld yw rôl S4C fel yr unig sianel Gymraeg yn y byd? Ble’r ydych chi’n gweld hwnna i gyd yn cwympo? Beth yw’n rôl ni? (Translation) You talked earlier about the Welsh language heartlands, which are, for the most part, in west Wales. Strong heartlands are now developing in south Wales as well, particularly in Cardiff. How do you see S4C’s role, as the only Welsh language channel in the world? Where do you see all that sitting? What is our role?

Yn bennaf, adlewyrchu diwylliant Cymru yn ôl at y gwylwyr; dangos cyfoeth ein diwylliant i ni ac i gymunedau eraill. Mae S4C yn cael ei wylio’n eang yn Lloegr hefyd, yn atgoffa pobl o’r iaith ac o bwysigrwydd yr iaith i Gymru. Mae gan S4C rôl ddiwylliannol bwysig. Rydw i wedi clywed bod gwledydd eraill y byd sydd â ieithoedd lleiafrifol yn edrych ar S4C fel model. Mae’n rhan o lwyddiant Cymru fel gwlad fach ein bod ni wedi llwyddo i gadw’r iaith i fynd, yn enwedig pan mae ein cymydog agosaf yn siarad un o ieithoedd cryfaf y byd. Mae pwysau anferth ar y Gymraeg oherwydd hynny, ond mae Cymru wedi llwyddo i ddal ei thir. Mae’n rhywbeth i ni gyd ymfalchïo ynddo. Dwi’n meddwl bod rôl S4C yn rhan o hynny. (Translation) Mainly, reflecting the culture back to the viewers; showing the wealth of our culture to us and to other communities. S4C is viewed widely in England as well, reminding people of the language, and its importance to Wales. S4C has an important cultural role to play. I have heard that other countries in the world with minority languages look up to S4C as a model. It is part of the culture of Wales, as a small country, that we have managed to keep our language going, particularly when our closest neighbour speaks one of the strongest languages in the world. There is huge pressure on the Welsh language because of that, but Wales has managed to hold its ground. We should all take pride in that. The role of S4C is part of that.

Buoch chi, yn flaenorol, yn wleidydd Llafur blaenllaw fel Aelod o’r Cynulliad gynt ac yn Ddirprwy Weinidog. Rydyn ni wedi cyffwrdd ar yr angen sydd gan S4C am annibyniaeth ac i fod yn ddiduedd. Sut allwch chi sicrhau bod y didueddrwydd yna yn parhau yn wleidyddol o ystyried eich cefndir gwleidyddol? (Translation) Previously, you have been a senior Labour politician as a Member of the Welsh Assembly, as was, and a Deputy Minister. We have touched on the need for independence and impartiality within S4C, so how will you ensure that that impartiality can continue, considering your political background?

Mae hwnna yn gwestiwn pwysig; rwy’n derbyn hynny. Rydw i’n meddwl bod bod yn ddiduedd fel Cadeirydd a fel sefydliad yn gwbl greiddiol i lwyddiant S4C. Fel rydw i wedi dweud yn barod, mae’r sianel a darpariaeth S4C yn ddibynnol ar gefnogaeth trawsbleidiol. Felly, bydden i’n ffôl iawn tasen i, yn bersonol, yn tanseilio hynny mewn unrhyw ffordd. Mae bod yn ddiduedd yn gwbl greiddiol i’r ffordd y bydden i’n mynd o gwmpas y rôl. Mae’n werth dweud hefyd bod yna fwrdd cryf yn S4C, gydag aelodau newydd yn dod i’r bwrdd sydd yn gwbl ymrwymedig i ddyfodol S4C. Dydw i ddim yn meddwl am funud y byddai’r bobl yna yn caniatáu i mi ymddwyn mewn unrhyw ffordd oedd yn bygwth agwedd diduedd y sianel. Bydden i hefyd yn dweud bod y Pwyllgor yma eisoes wedi dangos pa mor barod yw e i sefyll lan os mae’n gweld yr angen am ymyrryd lle mae S4C yn y cwestiwn. Rydych chi wedi profi eich diddordeb a’ch parodrwydd i weithredu. Felly, bydden i’n ymwybodol iawn fy mod i’n gorfod troedio’n hynod o ofalus yng nghyd-destun y Pwyllgor. Ond mae’n gwbl greiddiol i fi bod bod yn ddiduedd yn union beth sydd angen ar y sianel. Bydden i’n gofalu am hwnna i’r gradd y gallwn i. (Translation) That is an important question; I accept that. I think that being impartial as a Chair and as an organisation is absolutely vital to the success of S4C. As I have already said, the channel and S4C provision are reliant on cross-party support. I would be very foolish if I personally were to undermine that in any way. Being impartial is absolutely vital to the way in which I would approach the role. It is also worth saying that there is a strong board in S4C, with new members who are absolutely committed to its future. I do not think for a moment that those people would permit me to behave in any way that would pose a threat to the channel’s impartiality. I would also say that this Committee has already shown how ready it is to stand up if it sees the need for intervention where S4C is concerned. You have proved your interest and willingness to take action, so I would be very conscious that I had to tread very carefully in the context of the Committee. But being impartial is absolutely vital to me and exactly what the channel needs. I would take great care of that to the best of my ability.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you very much, Ms Evans, for joining us this afternoon for the oral evidence session. We have now come to the end of our questions for you, so please relax. I want to take time to thank the support staff who have been here today, especially Nerys, our interpreter, and the others who have made everything run so smoothly. I will close this public session now.