Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this oral evidence session of the Welsh Affairs Committee. My name is Ruth Jones. I am the Member for Newport West and Islwyn, and the Chair of the Committee. We are to hear from the leadership of S4C. On behalf of the Committee, thank you so much for taking the time to appear in person before us, with all three of you coming along today, which is really helpful. Witnesses and Members are all welcome to give their questions and answers in Welsh or English, and the translation can be heard by putting on the headphones. If anyone is having any technical difficulties, please indicate to the Clerks, and they will come to sort you out. Let me start by asking each of the witnesses before us to introduce themselves and indicate their role at S4C.

P’nawn da—good afternoon. My name is Delyth Evans. I am Chair of S4C. I have been in post since May of last year, so for seven months.

It is a delight to have you back in front of us.

P’nawn da. My name is Geraint Evans, Chief Executive of S4C. I have been in post as chief exec since 1 January 2025. Before that, I was already at S4C, as interim chief exec for a time, interim chief content officer and, originally, commissioner of news and current affairs.

Dyfrig Davies, nice to meet you. Please introduce yourself.

Prynhawn da i chi. Dyfrig Davies, aelod annibynnol arweiniol, ydw i. Dwi hefyd ar y Bwrdd. Cyn hynny, o’n i’n rhedeg cwmni Telesgop yn Abertawe ac yn gadeirydd TAC—Teledwyr Annibynnol Cymru. Dwi hefyd nawr yn rhedeg tri chwmni bach—dim byd i wneud â theledu—yn ôl yn ardal Castell Newydd Emlyn. (Translation) Good afternoon. I am Dyfrig Davies, the lead independent member of the S4C Board. Before that, I ran a television company called Telesgop in Swansea and I was the chair of TAC—Welsh Independent Producers. I also run three small companies—nothing to do with television—back in the Newcastle Emlyn area.

Bydden i’n dweud mai’r prif her sy’n wynebu S4C, fel pob darlledwr cyhoeddus arall, ydi sut ydyn ni’n ffitio mewn i’r tirwedd cyfryngau presennol, lle mae cymaint o gystadleuaeth oddi wrth cannoedd o gwmnïau eraill ym Mhrydain a thu hwnt. Pan gafodd S4C ei sefydlu, roedd pedwar sianel. Nawr, mae pobl yn gallu dewis o gannoedd, felly mae cystadleuaeth enfawr i ddenu sylw pobl ac i ddenu cynulleidfa. Yr her fwyaf sydd gyda ni yw denu cynulleidfa a chadw’r gynulleidfa sydd gyda ni. Y peth pwysicaf o ran hynny yw creu cynnwys mae pobl eisiau gweld. Y cwestiwn arall yw amlygrwydd ein cynnwys ni—sut mae pobl yn gweld y cynnwys yna, pa ddyfais maen nhw’n defnyddio a’r gwahanol blatfformau sydd mas yno. Dyna’r her fwyaf. Yr her sydd o’n blaenau ni nawr yw sefydlu dyfodol sicr ariannol i S4C, a dwi’n siŵr y dewn ni ymlaen i drafod y Papur Gwyrdd. (Translation) The main challenge facing S4C, like all other public broadcasters, is how we fit into the current media landscape. There is so much competition from hundreds of other companies in Britain and beyond. When S4C was established, there were four channels. Now, people are able to select from hundreds of different channels, so there is huge competition to attract people’s attention and to draw in audiences. The greatest challenge that we face is attracting an audience and retaining the audience we have. The most important thing in that regard is creating content that people wish to see. The other question is the prominence of our content—how people see it, what devices they use and the different platforms that exist out there. That is the greatest challenge. The challenge ahead of us now is the establishment of a secure financial future for S4C, and I am sure we will come on to discuss the Green Paper.

Os ga’ i bigo lan ar beth ddywedodd Delyth, amlygrwydd yw’r gair mawr i ni. Heb amlygrwydd, allwch chi gomisiynu’r cynnwys gorau yn y byd ond os yw pobl ddim yn gallu gweld e neu ddod o hyd iddo fe, dydyn nhw ddim yn mynd i wylio fe. Felly, mae’r amlygrwydd yn hollbwysig. Mae’r Ddeddf Cyfryngau i fod i sicrhau amlygrwydd priodol i S4C ar deledu clyfar yng Nghymru. Cyfeiriodd Delyth at y pedwar botwm—y mae rhai ohonom yn cofio ar ein teledu flynyddoedd mawr yn ôl—ond erbyn hyn, rydych chi’n cael eich wynebu gan fôr o apiau ar deledu clyfar. Mae sicrhau amlygrwydd i S4C ar y teledu clyfar i’r dyfodol yn hollbwysig i’n cynulleidfa traddodiadol ni, ond hefyd i’r gynulleidfa newydd dy’n ni moyn iddyn nhw ddarganfod S4C ac i ddod o hyd i ac i glywed yr iaith Gymraeg. Mae’r Ddeddf yn mynd i’r afael â hyn. Dy’n ni newydd glywed heddi bod Ofcom wedi cyhoeddi ymgynghoriad ar y cod drafft ar gyfer amlygrwydd fydd yn agored tan mis Mawrth. Byddwn ni’n cymryd y cyfle, fel chithau dwi’n siŵr, i roi tystiolaeth i hynny ac yn awgrymu y bydd darlledwyr gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn cael un o’r naw ffenestr ar hafan deledu clyfar sy’n rhoi amlygrwydd i BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 ac S4C fel rhan o hynny. Mae hynny’n dda i glywed, ond mae yna rai pryderon gyda ni am hynny. Mae gofid am b’un ai fydd Ofcom yn gweithredu hyn mewn ffordd gyhyrog i sicrhau bod S4C yn cael yr amlygrwydd. Falle bod e’n iawn i ddweud y caiff BBC, ITV a Channel 4 hynny, ond ydy S4C yn mynd i gael yr un amlygrwydd? Mae’n broblem llawer mwy dyrys na’r apiau. Maen nhw’n cyfeirio at yr apiau. Erbyn hyn, os y’ch chi’n gwylio ar deledu clyfar, dy’ch chi nawr yn gweld cynnwys, lluniau a delweddau ar gyfer cynnwys sy’n eistedd tu fas i sianel—yr out of app prominence mae pobl yn sôn amdano fe. Wedyn, mae cwestiwn a fydd cost i sicrhau’r amlygrwydd yna tu fas i’r ap a sut fydd pobl yn dod o hyd i S4C. Mae hwnna’n un her eithaf sylweddol, ond mae hynny ar gyfer teledu. Mae hynny’n dda i glywed, ond mae yna rai pryderon gyda ni am hynny. Mae gofid am b’un ai fydd Ofcom yn gweithredu hyn mewn ffordd gyhyrog i sicrhau bod S4C yn cael yr amlygrwydd. Falle bod e’n iawn i ddweud y caiff BBC, ITV a Channel 4 hynny, ond ydy S4C yn mynd i gael yr un amlygrwydd? Mae’n broblem llawer mwy dyrys na’r apiau. Maen nhw’n cyfeirio at yr apiau; erbyn hyn, os y’ch chi’n gwylio ar deledu clyfar, dy’ch chi gwybod eich bod chi nawr yn gweld cynnwys, lluniau a delweddau ar gyfer cynnwys sy’n eistedd tu fas i sianel—yr out of app prominence mae pobl yn sôn amdano fe. Wedyn, mae cwestiwn a fydd cost i sicrhau’r amlygrwydd yna tu fas i’r ap a sut fydd pobl yn dod o hyd i S4C. Mae hwnna’n un her eithaf sylweddol, ond mae hynny ar gyfer teledu. Rydyn ni hefyd wedi clywed Ofcom yn sôn am y defnydd o YouTube, sy’n gynyddol yn arferiad yn ein hystafelloedd byw ni. YouTube yw’r ail lwyfan fwyaf poblogaidd mae pobl yn ei ddefnyddio yn yr ystafell fyw. Dyw’r Ddeddf ddim yn mynd i’r afael ag amlygrwydd i ddarlledwyr cyhoeddus ar YouTube. Pa nerth braich fydd gan Ofcom mewn gwirionedd wedyn i ddisgwyl i YouTube gynnig amlygrwydd i gynnwys S4C? Rydyn ni’n sôn am y shifft i ddigidol. Rydyn ni eisiau apelio at gynulleidfaoedd yn ddigidol ar blatfformau fel YouTube, ond does dim pwrpas bod ni’n gwario ac yn comisiynu’r cynnwys yna os nad yw e’n mynd i gael ei ddarganfod gan wylwyr ifanc. Fuon ni yn Ofcom bore yma tra bod ni yn Llundain i gael y sgwrs yma gyda nhw. Mae gyda nhw lot o gydymdeimlad â sefyllfa S4C a’r darlledwyr gwasanaeth cyhoeddus eraill. Ond y cwestiwn eto yw: pa nerth fydd gyda nhw i sicrhau bod pobl fel YouTube yn rhoi sylw i S4C? Dyma yn ei hanfod sy’n mynd at wraidd pwysigrwydd darlledu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus. Hynny yw, yr amddiffyniad i ni o’r blaen oedd bod ni’n un o’r pedair prif sianel yn yr EPG—yr electronig programme guide. Hynny yw, pan fyddech chi’n rhoi teledu ’mlaen, byddech chi’n dod o hyd i ni ac yn dod o hyd i gynnwys sy’n newyddion, sy’n faterion cyfoes a phethau o bwys am eich cymunedau chi. Heb amlygrwydd, mae hwnna’n diflannu. Mae yna bryder wedyn ynghylch ai beth fydd yn dylanwadu ar arferion pobl yw’r hyn sy’n bwysig yn Nghaliffornia a nid yng Nghaernarfon, Caerfyrddin neu Gaerdydd. Felly, mae’n her enfawr, yr amlygrwydd yma. Mae rhywfaint o ddeddfwriaeth sy’n ein cefnogi ni, ond ei weithredu fe sydd angen ei blismona nawr. (Translation) To pick up on what Delyth said, it is about prominence—that is the big word for us. Without prominence, you could commission the best content in the world, but if people are not able to see it or find it, they will not be able to view it. That prominence is really important. The Media Act is supposed to ensure appropriate prominence for S4C on smart TV in Wales. Delyth referred to those four channels—we remember the four buttons on our televisions many years ago—but now we face a sea of apps when we go on to a smart TV. Ensuring prominence for S4C on the smart TV of the future is vital, for our traditional audience but also for the new audience who we wish to discover S4C, to find us and to hear the Welsh language. The Act addresses this. We have just heard today that Ofcom have published a consultation document on the draft code for prominence. That consultation is going to be open until March, and we will take the opportunity, as I am sure you will, to provide evidence to it. That document suggests that public service broadcasters should be one of those nine windows on the home page of a smart TV that provide prominence—prominence for the BBC, ITV, Channels 4 and 5 and S4C. That was good to hear, but we have some concerns in that regard. There is concern as to whether Ofcom will implement this in quite a robust way to make sure that S4C gets prominence. It might be okay to assume that BBC, ITV and Channel 4 will get prominence, but is S4C going to get the same prominence? It is a far more complicated problem than simply the apps. They refer to the apps; by now, if you watch on a smart TV, you know that you will see content, and pictures and images for content that sits outside a channel—the out-of-app prominence that people are talking about. Then there is a question about whether there will be a cost in ensuring prominence outside the app and how people will be able to find S4C. That is one quite substantial challenge, but that is for television. We have also heard Ofcom talking about the use of YouTube, which is increasingly a practice in our living rooms. YouTube is the second most popular platform that people use in their living rooms. The Act does not address the prominence of public service broadcasters on YouTube. So what power will Ofcom have to its elbow to expect YouTube to give prominence to S4C content? We are talking about the shift to digital. We want to appeal digitally to audiences on platforms like YouTube, but there is no purpose in commissioning and spending on that content unless it can be found by young viewers. We were at Ofcom in London this morning, while we are here, to have that very conversation with them, and there seemed to be quite a lot of sympathy for S4C and other public service broadcasters. But again, the question will be: what power will they have to ensure that people like YouTube do provide prominence to S4C? This is what gets to the root of the importance of public service broadcasting, isn’t it? The defence for us before was that we were one of the four main channels in the EPG—the electronic programme guide—which meant that when you put the television on, you would find us and you would find content, whether it was news and current affairs or things that were important for your communities. Without prominence, that disappears. There is a concern then that what will influence people’s practices is what is important in California, rather than what is important in Caernarfon, Carmarthen or Cardiff and so on. This prominence is a huge challenge. There is some degree of legislation that supports us, but its implementation is what needs to be policed now.

Yn ychwanegol at hynna i gyd, wrth gwrs, mae problemau ariannol. A ydyn ni’n cael ein hariannu’n ddigonol i wynebu’r heriau yma? Mae amlygrwydd yn un, wrth gwrs, a phwysigrwydd S4C i’r economi yng Nghymru. Allwn ni ddim pwysleisio hyn ddigon: am bob £1 sy’n cael ei fuddsoddi yn S4C, mae’n creu £1.70 yn yr economi. Os feddyliwch chi faint sy’n cael eu cyflogi, mae’r her o gadw rheiny’n bwysig iawn. Meddyliwch am rai ardaloedd lle mae’r cyfryngau yn chwarae rôl bwysig iawn. Hefyd, a rhywbeth ni’n ymwybodol iawn ohono, yw bod angen cadw ein safonau. Mae pob math o gystadleuaeth yn ein herbyn ni, gan gynnwys creu cynnwys gan unigolion neu gan grwpiau. Mae’n rhaid ein bod ni, yn fewnol, yn gofalu bod ein safonau yn uchel iawn. Mae’n rhywbeth ni’n rhoi sylw mawr iddo ac yn cwestiynu’n aml: ein bod ni’n gallu rhoi’r gorau i bawb. S4C i Bawb yw strategaeth S4C. Mae hwnna biti fod yn amhosib, ddwedwch chi, ond dyna’r nod a dyna lle ni eisiau bod. Mae’n golygu bod rhaid inni, mewn gwirionedd, gyda’ch cymorth chi, fuddsoddi er mwyn sicrhau hynny, ac fe fydd e o fudd i’r economi ehangach. (Translation) Of course, in relation to that, there are financial problems. Are we really being funded adequately to face these challenges? Prominence is of course one of them, as is the importance of S4C to the economy of Wales. I cannot overemphasise that for every £1 invested in S4C, it creates £1.70 in return for the economy. If you think about how many people are employed, and the challenge of retaining them is really important. You can think of certain geographical areas where the media plays a very important role. Also, and this is something that we are very aware of, there is a need for us to maintain our standards. There are all kinds of competition against us, including content created by individuals or groups, so we have to ensure internally that our standards are very high. It is something that we are giving a lot of attention to and that we question on a regular basis: that we can provide the best to everybody. “S4C i Bawb”—S4C for everybody—that is our strategy. That is almost impossible, you may say, but that is the aim and where we wish to be. That means that we have to, with your support, invest in ensuring that that is the case, and it will be beneficial to the wider economy.

Dyna un o’r rhesymau y gwnaethon ni fynd ati i edrych o’r newydd ar strategaeth corfforaethol S4C—er mwyn wynebu’r union her yma. Enw’r strategaeth yw “Mwy na Sianel Deledu”. Mae angen i S4C fod yn fwy na sianel deledu draddodiadol; mae angen i ni wasanaethu ar draws platfformau. Hefyd, ry’n ni’n fwy na sianel deledu oherwydd, fel ddwedodd Dyfrig, ein bod ni’n creu cyfoeth ar hyd a lled Cymru, yn gyflogwr pwysig ac yn sicrhau bod pobl yn datblygu sgiliau ac yn y blaen. Yn ôl i’ch pwynt, Ben, am y gwasanaeth digidol, nid rhywbeth newydd yw hyn. Rydyn ni wedi bod yn cymryd camau ar hyd y llwybr i fod yn fwy digidol ers blynyddoedd erbyn hyn, ac mae dipyn o gynnwys S4C sydd eisoes yn ddigidol yn gyntaf. Ry’n ni’n sôn am bethau digidol yn gyntaf yn aml iawn. Mae’n cynnwys pobl ifanc ni, pethau fel Hansh, wedi bod yn ddigidol yn gyntaf ers tipyn oherwydd dyna lle mae’r gynulleidfa yna yn cael eu cynnwys, ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn ogystal ag ar YouTube ac yn y blaen. I fi, mae gwerth arbennig i gynnwys cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Os yw rhywun sydd ddim yn cael y Gymraeg yn eu bywydau yn taro ar gynnwys Cymraeg S4C ar TikTok neu Instagram a bod e’n ddwy funud o hyd, mae hwnna’n arbennig o werthfawr. Heb hwnna, falle bydd y Gymraeg byth yn rhan o’u bywydau. ‘Dyn ni ddim yn meddwl am y cyfryngau cymdeithasol fel modd o anfon pobl draw i wylio’r brif sianel; mae’n gynnwys ynddo’i hun. Mae hwnna’n un rhan o’r strategaeth. Pan ry’n ni’n troi at bethau fel drama, mae hynny eisoes yn ddigidol yn gyntaf. Fe welwch chi bod pethau fel cyfres “Dal y Mellt” sydd ar S4C ar hyn o bryd wedi cael ei gollwng fel bocs set. Mae’r penodau i gyd yna i’w gwylio o’r foment mae’r bennod gyntaf ar gael oherwydd dyna yw arferion ein cynulleidfa ni. Ymateb i arferion gwylwyr ydyn ni. Ry’n ni’n gwybod bod y galw yna gan bobl i weld cynnwys pryd maen nhw eisiau ei weld. Mae hwnna’n batrwm cyhoeddi cyffredin iawn gyda’n dramâu ni. Gyda Hansh, fe wnaethon ni gomisiynu’n ddiweddar drama fertigol, sef drama sydd wedi cael ei ffilmio ar gyfer eich ffôn symudol, ar gyfer TikTok. Mae wedi cael ei ffilmio i edrych fel ‘na—yn fertigol—nid fel ‘na—yn llorweddol—fel siap teledu traddodiadol. Mae hwnna’n arbennig o boblogaidd gyda phobl ifanc, ac felly yn enghraifft arall o ddigidol yn gyntaf. Rhyw bump i chwe mlynedd yn ôl, pan ymunais i gyda S4C, o ran y newyddion, roedd gennym wasanaeth teledu, rhaglen newyddion nosweithiol, “Newyddion S4C”, yn cael ei gynhyrchu gan BBC Cymru. Roeddwn i’n gweld angen—bwlch mewn gwirionedd—oherwydd ein bod ni i gyd yn cael ein newyddion yn ddigidol, felly ble oedd y gwasanaeth newyddion digidol Cymraeg ar gyfer “Newyddion S4C”? Mae hwnna’n rhywbeth sydd wedi cael ei ddatblygu fel ap, fel gwefan ond hefyd ar TikTok ac Instagram. Ry’n ni’n gweld bod pobl ifanc yn cael newyddion allen nhw ymddiried ynddo fe ar eu ffonau symudol, sy’n dod â “Newyddion S4C” yn rhan o’r brand. Mae rhyw hanner miliwn o wylwyr—sesiynau gwylio—i hwnnw bob mis. Mae chwaraeon yn ddigidol yn gyntaf. Ry’n ni’n dangos gemau chwaraeon domestig o super rygbi Cymru, adran Cymru premier, adran premier cynghrair y menywod ar nos Iau yn aml iawn neu ar benwythnos ar lwyfan digidol S4C, ar Clic, iPlayer a YouTube oherwydd hyn a hyn o chwaraeon allwch chi gynnwys ar eich prif sianel. Bydden ni’n gwylltio lot o bobl fyddai’n cwyno bod gormod o chwaraeon, a ry’n ni’n clywed hynny’n barod. Ond mae’r llwyfannau digidol yn rhoi cyfle i chi ddarparu gwasanaeth i’r bobl sydd wir ei eisiau fe. Rydyn ni’n gweld bod arferion yn newid, ond mae angen i’r strategaeth newid. Dyw e ddim jyst am genres; mae e hefyd am ffordd o feddwl. Pan ry’n ni’n sôn am gomisiynu yn ddigidol, ry’n ni’n sôn am gomisiynu pethau sy’n sefyll mas. Dyw e ddim jyst am y pethau digidol yn unig, y pethau byrion, ond hefyd am gynnwys fel fyddai rhai ohonoch chi wedi gweld ar S4C dros y Nadolig. Roedd dogfen arbennig o’r enw “Y Crwydryn”, a lluosodd y niferoedd gwylwyr o ryw 5, 6, 7 gwaith gyda’r gwylio digidol. Roedd hi’n ddogfen arbennig, roedd pobl yn siarad amdani, roedd hi ar gael ar gyfer ein chwaraewyr ni ac roedd pobl yn troi ati fel ro’n nhw eisiau. Felly mae gwylio digidol a comisiynu ar gyfer digidol yn golygu nifer o wahanol bethau. Un peth arall ro’n i am sôn amdano heddiw: ry’n ni wedi cyhoeddi bore ‘ma—efallai bod chi’n ymwybodol ohono fe—ein bod ni’n mynd i ddwysau ein partneriaeth gyda’r BBC ar gyfer yr iPlayer. Mae gennym wrth gwrs ein chwaraewr ein hunain, S4C Clic, ac mae gynulleidfa driw iawn yn defnyddio hwnnw. Ry’n ni’n gweld bod tipyn o’n gwylio digidol yn dod drwy’r iPlayer ac mae rhesymau am hyn. Mae’r iPlayer yn llwyfan cyffredin, cyfarwydd i bawb, ar bob teledu clyfar, a dyw S4C Clic ddim ar hyn o bryd. Er mwyn manteisio ar hynny ac apelio at gynulleidfa sydd ddim yn draddodiadol yn gwylio S4C, rydyn ni wedi buddsoddi gyda’r BBC mewn sicrhau bod nodweddion ac amlygrwydd ychwanegol yn mynd i fod i gynnwys S4C ar BBC iPlayer. Ar hyn o bryd mae’n bodoli tu mewn i sianel ei hun: “walled garden” maen nhw’n dweud yn Saesneg. Ry’n ni am dynnu’r waliau i lawr. Hynny yw, mae eisiau i gynnwys S4C ddod mas o’r ardd furiog yna a dod i brif hafan BBC iPlayer, a dyna fydd yn digwydd yn sgil y bartneriaeth newydd. Ry’n ni’n falch o gyhoeddi hwnna heddiw ac yn ddiolchgar i’r BBC am gydweithio gyda ni arno. Rwy’n siŵr bydd manteision di-ri i’r gwylwyr ohono fe. (Translation) That is one of the reasons why we set about looking at the corporate strategy for S4C from scratch, to face this very challenge. It is in the name of the strategy: “More than a TV channel”. S4C has to be more than a traditional TV channel; we need to be serving across platforms. Also, we are more than a TV channel because, as Dyfrig referred to, we create wealth across the length and breadth of Wales and we are an important employer that ensures that people develop skills and so forth. Back to your point, Ben, on the digital service, it is not something new. We have been taking steps along the pathway to becoming more digital for many years now, and there is quite a lot of S4C content that is already digital-first. We talk about digital-first really often. Our content for young people—things such as Hansh—has been digital-first for some time, because that is where that audience get their content, on our social media, as well as on YouTube and so forth. For me, there is a particular value to social media content. If someone perhaps does not hear the Welsh language in their lives, and they happen across some S4C content on TikTok or Instagram that is two minutes long, that is especially valuable. Without that, the Welsh language might never be part of their lives. We do not think of social media platforms as a way to send people over to watch the main channel; it’s content in itself. That is one part of the strategy. When we turn to things such as drama, that is already digital-first. You will see that “Dal y Mellt”, the “Rough Cut” series, which is on S4C at the moment, is now there as a box set. All the episodes are there from the moment that the first episode is available, because that is the practice of our audiences. We are responding to viewers’ needs, and we know that there is a demand for people to be able to see content when they want to see it. That is a general pattern for our dramas. We recently commissioned a drama with Hansh. It was a vertical drama, which is a drama filmed for your mobile phone, for TikTok. It has been designed to look this way, vertically, not that way, horizontally, like the traditional shape of a TV screen. It is very popular with young people and is another example of digital-first. Some five or six years ago, when I joined S4C, we had a television service, an evening news programme, “Newyddion S4C”, which was produced by BBC Cymru. We saw a need—a gap really, in a way—because we were all receiving our news digitally. Where was the digital Welsh language news service for “Newyddion S4C”? That has been developed as an app, as a website and also for TikTok and Instagram. Young people are now receiving news that they can have faith and trust in on their mobile phones. That makes “Newyddion S4C” part of the brand, and there are around half a million viewers—viewing sessions—of that every month. Sports are digital-first: we show domestic matches from super rygbi Cymru, the Cymru premier and the women’s league, often on a Thursday evening or on weekends on the S4C digital platform, Clic, iPlayer and YouTube, because there is only so much sport that you can include on your main channel. I am sure that people would complain about there being too much sport; we have heard that already. But the digital platforms are an opportunity to provide a service to people who really want it. Practices are changing, and therefore the strategy has to change. It is not just about genres, but about a way of thinking. When we talk about commissioning digitally, we are talking about commissioning things that stand out. It is not just about the digital things being digital alone, those short things, but about content like what some of you may have seen on S4C over Christmas. There was an excellent documentary called “Y Crwydryn”, and the viewing figures went up five, six or seven times with digital viewing. It was an excellent documentary, people were talking about it, it was available for all of our players and people could turn to it when they wanted to. Digital viewing and commissioning for digital mean a number of different things. I wanted to touch on—and you may be aware of this—what we published this morning: we are going to be deepening our partnership with the BBC on iPlayer. We have our own player, S4C Clic, and we have a very loyal audience using it, but much of our digital viewing comes through iPlayer and there are reasons for that. iPlayer is a universal platform, familiar to everyone, on all smart TVs, and S4C is not at the moment. In order to take advantage of that and to appeal to an audience that is perhaps not a traditional S4C audience, we have invested with the BBC in ensuring that there are additional features and prominence for S4C content on BBC iPlayer. At the moment, it exists within what is called a “walled garden” in English. We want to bring those walls down. That is, S4C’s content needs to come out of that walled garden and come to iPlayer’s main home space. That is what will happen through the new partnership. We are pleased to announce that today and grateful to the BBC for co-operating with us on that. I am sure there will be endless opportunities for the viewers as a result.

Yn sicr. Mae trefniant penodol lle mae lleiafswm o deitlau S4C yn mynd i ymddangos ar y brif reilen ar iPlayer, y “New & Trending”, sy’n golygu bod pobl—nid dim ond y bobl sy’n mynd i chwilio amdano fe—yn dod ar ei draws e, yn darganfod cynnwys Cymraeg ac yn mynd i’w wylio fe. Byddant hefyd yn gweld bod personoleiddio cynyddol yn digwydd, fydd yn golygu os yw Mr Ben Lake yn defnyddio’r iPlayer i wylio S4C yn gyson, fe fydd yn cael mwy o gynnwys S4C wedi’i fwydo i’w hafan. Os oes gan rywun blant, yn y gorffennol roedd hi’n anodd iawn ffeindio cynnwys plant ar BBC iPlayer. Ry’n ni wedi sicrhau yn y bartneriaeth newydd fod gofod blaenllaw yn mynd i fod ar yr hafan plant, nesaf i CBeebies a CBBC, lle fydd Cyw a Stwnsh yn ymddangos ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae’n newyddion arbennig o dda i gynnwys plant, sydd hefyd yn eithriadol o bwysig i S4C. (Translation) Yes, certainly. There is a specific set-up where there is a minimum number of S4C titles that are going to appear on the main “New & Trending” feature. It means that people—and not just those who look for it—will encounter it, discover Welsh content and view it. They will also see that there is increasing personalisation happening, which means that if Mr Ben Lake makes use of iPlayer to watch S4C on a regular basis, he will have more S4C content fed to his home page. If somebody has children, in the past it was very difficult to find children’s content on BBC iPlayer. We have ensured in this new partnership that there will be a prominent space on the children’s home page, next to CBeebies and CBBC, where Cyw and Stwnsh will also appear. That will be across the United Kingdon. It is really good news for children’s content, which is very important for S4C as well.

Mae yna nifer o gwestiynau yn fanna, Ben; w’na i drio taclo nhw fesul un os galla’ i. Yn y lle cyntaf, ry’n ni’n gwybod o ddata ry’n ni’n cael gan Barb, sy’n mesur ffigurau gwylio teledu, bod rhyw 100,000 yn gyson dros Glawdd Offa yn gwylio cynnwys S4C mewn wythnos, tra bod rhywbeth tebyg i ryw 300,000 yn gwylio yng Nghymru. Mae’n batrwm eithaf rheolaidd, a hynny drwy fesurau Barb yn unig. Drwy’r platfformau digidol, mae’n gallu bod ychydig bach yn anoddach i fesur cyrhaeddiad. Hynny yw, allwch chi ddim dweud a ydych chi’n ailadrodd data os ry’ch chi’n ychwanegu ffigurau iPlayer a Clic ac YouTube at ei gilydd. Mae’n anodd dod i gasgliad ynghylch cyfanswm y niferoedd yna os ydych chi’n adio nhw at ei gilydd. Ry’n ni’n ymwybodol iawn bod gwylio cynyddol yn digwydd ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig i bethau fel cynnwys plant a chwaraeon yn benodol. Mae diddordeb mawr y tu hwnt i Glawdd Offa. Felly ry’n ni’n gweld y twf. O ran Ofcom a’i gydnabyddiaeth o hynny, roedd yn croesawu’n fawr y cyhoeddiad am nodweddion ychwanegol ar BBC iPlayer sy’n golygu bod cynnwys Cymraeg yn mynd i fod yn fwy amlwg i bawb. Mae e’n dod gyda chost, ac weithiau mae’n rhaid pwyso a mesur a ydy e werth y gost. Pan rydych chi’n chwilio am amlygrwydd ar deledu clyfar ar gyfer y dyfodol, mae rhywbeth hynod o ddiflas o’r enw metadata, fydd yn arwain pobl at gynnwys ac yn ei wneud e’n ddarganfyddadwy. Mae hynny’n golygu bod angen pobl i fwydo’r metadata o ran lluniau a geiriad, mewn i’r wybodaeth sy’n mynd i’r platfformau. Mae ‘na gost. Mae hwnna yn gwestiwn—ry’n ni wedi cyfeirio eisoes rhywfaint at y gost a rwy’n siŵr y dewn ni at hynny eto wrth drafod y Papur Gwyrdd. Mae gwasanaethu cynulleidfaoedd ar draws mwy a mwy o blatfformau yn bwysig i ni gyd ond yn dod gyda chost ychwanegol o ran pobl a chynnal platfformau ac, o bosib, er mwyn cael amlygrwydd ar blatfformau teledu clyfar. Mae angen arian i fynd i gefnogi hynny os mai dyna ry’n ni am weld darlledu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn parhau i wneud. (Translation) There are a number of questions there, Ben; I will try and tackle them in turn. In the first instance, we know from the information on television viewing figures that we have received from Barb that there are consistently something like 100,000 viewers of S4C content every week over Offa’s Dyke, whereas some 300,000 people view it in Wales. That is quite a regular pattern. That is through Barb’s measures alone. Through the digital platforms, it can be a bit more difficult to measure the reach. For example, you can’t tell whether you are repeating data if you look at YouTube, iPlayer and Clic figures all together, so it is difficult to come to a total number of figures if you simply add them together. We are very aware that there is increasing viewing happening across the United Kingdom for things like children’s content and for sports specifically. There is a major interest beyond Offa’s Dyke in that, so we see the growth. In terms of Ofcom and its recognition of that, it very much welcomed the announcement this morning about the additional features on BBC iPlayer that will mean that Welsh language content is going to be more prominent for everybody. It does come with a cost and sometimes there is a need to weigh up if something is worth the cost. When you look for prominence on a smart TV of the future, there is something very boring called metadata, which is going to lead people to content and make it discoverable. That means you need people to feed that metadata, in terms of wording and pictures, into the information that then goes to these platforms. There is a cost associated with that. That is a question—we have already touched a little on cost and I am sure that we will come to that again in discussing the Green Paper. Serving audiences across more and more platforms is important for all of us, but it brings with it an additional cost in terms of people and maintaining and sustaining platforms and, possibly, in gaining prominence on smart TV platforms. Funding is needed to support that if that is what we want to see public service broadcasting continuing to do. Q4             Llinos Medi: Dyfrig, rydych chi’n dod â lot o brofiad o weithio gyda chwmnïau cynhyrchu. Beth yw eich barn chi am y berthynas rhwng S4C a’r cwmnïau cynhyrchu, a sut ydach chi’n meddwl bod posib datblygu a chryfhau y berthynas yna i’r dyfodol? (Translation) Dyfrig, you bring a lot of experience of working in production companies. What is your view of S4C’s relationship with them, and how do you think it could be developed and strengthened over time?

Dwi wedi croesi’r ffin, fel petae, yn llythrennol. Dwi wedi mynd o fod yn gynhyrchydd ac yn rhedeg cwmni i fod yn gweithio i S4C ar y Bwrdd. Y peth cyntaf i ddweud, wrth gwrs, yw nad yw fy rôl fan hyn yn ymwneud gyda chynnwys o gwbl. Mae’r rôl weithredol yn aros gyda’r rhai sy’n cael eu cyflogi. Dwi’n siarad yn gyson gyda ffrindiau sy’n rhedeg cwmnïau. Dw i’n teimlo bod pethau’n eistedd yn well nawr nag y maen nhw ers sbel fawr. Os ry’ch chi’n rhedeg cwmni, y broblem chi’n wynebu yw eich bod chi’n buddsoddi mewn syniadau, a’r amser mae’n gymryd i’r syniadau yna naill ai gael “ie” neu “na”. Maen nhw’n gyfarwydd iawn â fi ar y Bwrdd yn dweud bod “na” cyflym yn well na “falle”. Yn ddiweddar, ry’n ni wedi gweithio ar ddilyn proses gomisiynu sy’n glir iawn i’r cwmnïau ac i S4C. Ar ddiwedd y dydd, yn S4C, ry’n ni eisiau’r syniadau gorau posibl. Dyna sy’n denu gwylwyr a rhoi enw da i S4C. Er mwyn sicrhau hynny, mae’n rhaid edrych ar nifer o ffactorau gan gynnwys maint y cwmni a beth mae’n gallu ei wneud. Mae hyn oll yn waith pwysig iawn. Dwi’n credu bod mynd â’r cwmnïau ar y siwrne yna gyda ni a bod nhw’n deall yn glir yn bwysig. Un o’r pethau mae S4C yn gwneud ydy cydweithio gyda TAC. Fues i’n gadeirydd TAC am dair blynedd ac roedd y berthynas yn dda bryd hynny ac mae’n well fyth nawr. Buodd cynhadledd ar y cyd gan TAC ac S4C, a hynny er mwyn gallu esbonio’r broses wrth bod ni’n symud ymlaen. Ry’n ni hefyd yn gweithio ar strategaeth cynnwys. Yn aml iawn mae cwmnïau eisiau gwybod ble byddan nhw ymhen blwyddyn a dwy flynedd. Mae hynny’n anodd iawn. Mae’r sianel yn gorfod ystyried lle fyddwn ni mewn tair blynedd o ran ein hariannu a sut ry’n ni’n paratoi ymlaen. Cydweithio yw e, perthynas agored o drafod. Mae’r broses yn gweithio. Mae syniad yn mynd ar “Cwmwl” ac mae’n cael ei drafod fan ‘ny, ac mae ‘na “ie” neu “na” neu “falle” neu “datblygu” neu “isio rhagor o wybodaeth”. Mae’r sefyllfa yn lot fawr hapusach a dweud y gwir. Mae fy mhrofiad i’n help yn yr ystyr ‘mod i’n gallu cofio beth oedd y rhwystredigaethau ro’n i’n teimlo pan ro’n i’n uwch-gynhyrchydd. Wedi dweud hynny, rwyf wedi dysgu lot hefyd, a dyw e ddim cweit mor syml â beth ro’n i’n gobeithio, os ga’ i fod yn onest. (Translation) I have literally crossed the border, as it were. I have gone from being a producer and running a company to working on the Board of S4C. Of course, the first thing to say is that my role has nothing to do with content. That operational role remains with those who are employed at S4C. I regularly speak to friends who run companies. I feel that things sit better now than they have been for a very long time. When you run a company, the problem you face is that you invest in ideas, and the time it takes for them to get a “yes” or a “no”. The Board is very familiar with my saying that a quick “no” is better than “perhaps”. Recently, we have worked on following a commissioning process that is very clear for the companies and for S4C. At the end of the day, at S4C, we want the best possible ideas. That is what attracts viewers and gives S4C its good reputation. To ensure that, we must look at several factors, including the size of the company and what it can do. All that is important work. Taking the companies on that journey with us and ensuring that they understand it clearly is important. One of the things that S4C does is collaborate with TAC. I was the chair of TAC for three years and the relationship was good then and it is even better now. There was a joint conference run by TAC and S4C to explain the process as we move forward. We are also working on a content strategy. Companies often want to know where they will be in one or two years. That is very difficult. The channel itself has to consider where we will be in three years in terms of our funding and preparation. It is about collaboration and a relationship of open discussion. The process works. An idea goes on “Cwmwl”—S4C’s commissioning tool—and is then discussed, and there is a “yes”, “no”, “maybe”, “development” or “further information required”. It is a much happier situation. My experience helps in that I can remember the frustrations that I felt when I was a senior producer. Having said that, I have learned an awful lot as well, and to be honest, it is not quite as simple as I had hoped.

Os ga’ i ychwanegu at yr hyn mae Dyfrig yn ddweud, dwi’n credu mai cyfathrebu clir a chyson a bod yn stret sy’n bwysig. Mae “na” buan yn well na bod rhywun yn llusgo sgwrs mas a ddim yn licio dweud “na” wrth bobl. Roedd y gynhadledd “Dychmygu’r Dyfodol” ‘naethon ni drefnu yng Nghaerdydd yn ddiweddar yn hynod o bwysig i ddod â’r sector at ei gilydd i esbonio’n gweledigaeth o ran y strategaeth “Mwy na Sianel Deledu”, sut mae hynny’n mynd i gael ei gwireddu, beth yw’r heriau a sut ry’n ni’n mynd i daclo nhw. Wnes i, Delyth, y Cadeirydd a Llion, y Prif Swyddog Cynnwys ymddangos gerbron cyfarfod blynyddol TAC er mwyn ateb unrhyw gwestiynau oedd gyda nhw. Dwi’n teimlo bod hwnna’n rhywbeth blynyddol hoffen i weld yn digwydd fel bod nhw’n gallu ein holi ni am unrhyw bryderon. Ry’n ni’n mabwysiadu hyn fel ffordd o weithio yn S4C—ry’n ni’n dryloyw ac yn agored ym mhopeth ry’n ni’n ei wneud, yn fewnol ac yn allanol, gyda’r sector. (Translation) I want to add to what Dyfrig said; clear and consistent communication and being straight is what it is about. A quick “no” is better than somebody dragging a conversation out and not wanting to say “no” to people. The “Imagining the Future” conference we had in Cardiff recently was important in bringing the sector together to explain our vision in terms of the “More than a TV Channel” strategy and how that is going to be realised, what the challenges are and how we will tackle them. Delyth, the Chair, Llion the Chief Content Officer and I appeared before the annual TAC meeting to answer any questions they had. That is something that we would like to see happening on an annual basis, so that they can ask us questions about any concerns that they may have. We are adopting that as a way of working in S4C—we are transparent and open in all that we do, internally and externally, with the sector.

Mae hefyd yn help, ar y Bwrdd sydd gennym ni nawr, bod ‘na dri aelod sydd â chefndir uniongyrchol o’r sector deledu. Mae hwnna’n cryfhau’r profiad o gwmpas y bwrdd. Mae sgiliau eraill pwysig iawn hefyd, ond mae’r ffaith bod gennym ni’r arbenigedd yna yn helpu yn ein penderfyniadau. (Translation) It also helps, on the current Board, that there are three members who have a direct background in the television sector. That strengthens the experience around the table. There are other very important skills too, but having that expertise is really helpful in our decision making.

You are giving very comprehensive answers, but I am conscious that the Committee has a lot of topics we want to cover this afternoon. Do not worry, I am sure that you will get to say everything you want, but if we could have briefer answers, that would be really helpful.

Dwi mor falch o glywed bod chi’n cydweithio gyda TAC. Mae mor bwysig ac maen nhw’n hanfodol i’r sector. Delyth, beth ydych chi’n gweld yw’r effaith ar yr iaith Gymraeg wrth bod ni’n edrych ar arallgyfeirio digidol a strategaeth 2030 S4C? Wrth symud ymlaen, beth y’ch chi’n gweld yw’r effaith ar y Gymraeg a fel licech chi weld hynny’n newid? Ydych chi’n gobeithio bod e’n mynd i wella? Fel mae’n pano mas, o ddiffyg gair arall? Fel chi’n gweld e’n gweithio ar hyn o bryd? (Translation) I am so pleased to hear that you are collaborating with TAC. It is so important, and they are vital to the sector. Delyth, what do you anticipate the impact on the Welsh language will be, as we look at digital diversification and S4C’s 2030 strategy? As we move forward, what do you see the impact being on the Welsh language? How would you like to see that change? Do you hope it is going to improve? How do you think it is going to pan out, and how do you see it working at the moment?

Dwi’n meddwl fod e’n fwy hanfodol heddiw nag erioed oherwydd y dewis sydd yna i bobl ei wylio. Ry’n ni’n gwybod bod plant a phobl ifanc yn treulio lot fawr--falle gormod--o amser ar eu sgriniau felly mae’n ofnadwy o bwysig bod cynnwys Cymraeg yn rhan o beth maen nhw’n gweld. O ran oedran, mae beth ry’n ni’n cynnig ar gyfer plant yn gwbl allweddol ar gyfer dyfodol y Gymraeg; mae hwnna’n amlwg. Mae nifer cynyddol o blant yn ein hysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd yn dod o deuluoedd sydd ddim yn siarad Cymraeg ar yr aelwyd, felly mae’n hanfodol bwysig bod y plant yn gweld y cynnwys Cymraeg ar eu teledu a’r sgrin a bod y Gymraeg yn dod ar yr aelwyd fel bod y rhieni a’r mam-gu a’r tad-cu yn gallu gwylio’r cynnwys yna gyda nhw. Rwy’n gwybod bod hynny’n digwydd ymysg fy ffrindiau. I’r oedran ifanc yna, mae’r cynnwys Cymraeg o safon uchel iawn sy’n cael ei gynhyrchu yn hanfodol bwysig. Wrth i blant dyfu’n hŷn, mae cymaint o bethau eraill gallen nhw wylio. Mae e mor bwysig bod nhw’n teimlo bod y Gymraeg yn dal i fod yn berthnasol yn eu bywydau tu allan i’r ysgol, bod ffyrdd iddyn nhw gymdeithasu yn Gymraeg, a bod ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn Gymraeg ac ati. Mae’r gwaith ry’n ni’n gwneud i dargedu’r cynulleidfaoedd ifanc yna wrth iddyn nhw gyrraedd a mynd trwy eu harddegau yn ofnadwy o bwysig. I oedrannau hŷn, mae cymaint o’n harlwy yn apelio at wahanol oedrannau, a ry’n ni’n gweithio’n galed iawn i roi i’r cynulleidfaoedd yna beth maen nhw eisiau, achos mae’r Gymraeg yn rhan o’u bywydau nhw ac ry’n ni eisiau bod hynny’n cael ei adlewyrchu ar y sgrin. (Translation) It is more vital today than it has ever been, because of the choices that exist out there for people to view. We know that children and young people spend an awful lot—perhaps too much—of their time on screens, so it is really important that what they see includes Welsh language content. In terms of age, what we offer for children is key for the future of the Welsh language; that is obvious. An increasing number of children in our primary and secondary schools come from families where Welsh is not spoken at home, so it is vital that those children see Welsh language content on their TVs and screens, and that the Welsh language comes into the home situation so that parents and grandparents can view those programmes with them. I know that that happens among my friends. From that young age, that Welsh language content of a high standard is vital. As children grow older, there are so many other things that they can view, so it is important that they feel that the Welsh language is still relevant to their lives outside school, and that they can socialise in Welsh, on social media and elsewhere. The work that we do to target young audiences as they reach and go through their teens is really important. For older age groups, so much of our offer appeals to different age groups. We work very hard to give those audiences what they want, because the Welsh language is part of their lives, and we want that to be reflected on screen.

I ategu at hynna o ran yr iaith, elfen arall sy’n bwysig i nodi yw’r gwasanaethau ry’n ni’n darparu ar gyfer dysgwyr. Mae’r hyn ry’n ni’n ei wneud ar gyfer dysgwyr ar YouTube S4C yn rhywbeth penodol iawn ar eu cyfer nhw. O bosib, gallen ni wneud mwy. Dwi’n credu bod gan S4C rôl gwbl greiddiol yn yr amcan i gael miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2050. Ry’n ni’n falch o’n partneriaeth gyda’r Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol. Ry’n ni’n cael deialog cyson gyda nhw am anghenion dysgwyr hefyd. (Translation) To add to that in terms of the language, it is important to note the services that we provide for learners as well. What we provide for learners on YouTube S4C is very specific to them. We can possibly do more, but S4C has a vital role in the goal of a million Welsh speakers by 2050. We are very proud of our relationship with the National Centre for Learning Welsh, and we have a regular dialogue with them about learners’ needs. Q6             Llinos Medi: Mewn tystiolaeth diweddar i’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon, rydach chi wedi cydnabod bod pobl ifanc rhwng naw a 15 oed yn cael eu tanwasanaethu ar draws Prydain. Rydych chi wedi cyfeirio yn barod at bwysigrwydd hyn a beth rydach chi’n ei wneud amdano. Oes gennych chi strategaeth benodol er mwyn ymateb i’r her yma, i sicrhau bod y bobl ifanc yn cael yr hyn maen nhw ei angen drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? (Translation) In recent evidence to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee you recognised that young people between the ages of nine and 15 are increasingly underserved across the UK. You have already touched on the importance of that and what you are doing about it. Do you have a specific strategy to respond to that challenge, to ensure that those young people have what they need through the medium of Welsh?

Oes, yn sicr. Mae’n cael ei ystyried yn oedran anodd i wasanaethu gan lawer. Dwi’n credu gallwn ni fod yn falch bod S4C yn gwneud mwy nag unrhyw ddarlledwr arall yn y maes yma. Rydan ni’n gwneud pethau fel “Newyddion Ni” i blant, sy’n bwysig i gyflwyno nhw i straeon am y byd o’u hamgylch. Ry’n ni wedi gweld tipyn o ddiddordeb a llwyddiant mewn drama ar gyfer plant yr oedran yma. Rydyn ni wedi cael adborth gan ysgolion Cymraeg ond hefyd gan ysgolion sy’n dysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith bod y dramâu yma yn gallu bod yn hynod o werthfawr ar gyfer astudio yn y dosbarth. Ry’n ni wedi comisiynu drama neu ddwy bob blwyddyn ar gyfer yr oedran yma’n ddiweddar. Mae drama’n ddrud ac yn anodd i’w hariannu. Weithiau, pan ry’ch chi’n pwyso a mesur gwerth, ry’ch chi’n edrych ar ffigurau gwylio. Dyw ffigurau gwylio ar gyfer plant ddim yn mynd i gyrraedd ffigurau gwylio oriau brig, ond mae’n fuddsoddiad pwysig inni ei wneud. Yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ry’n ni wedi comisiynu cyfresi o’r enw “Y Coridor” ac “Itopia” i blant, sydd wedi bod yn boblogaidd iawn, yn cael eu hariannu dipyn drwy gredydau treth. Mae credydau treth ar gyfer cynnwys plant wedi bod yn hynod o werthfawr, ac mae defnyddio credydau treth fel ffordd o annog mwy o gynhyrchu penodol o’r math yma, yn ogystal â datblygu sgiliau, yn arf gwerthfawr iawn . Hoffwn i weld mwy o hynny’n digwydd. Mae’r credydau treth sydd gennym yn brysur ddiflannu. Er mwyn parhau i wneud hyn, mae angen mwy o hynny. Fuon ni blynyddoedd yn ôl yn comisiynu dramâu eraill. Roedd “Bex” a “Goleudy” yn cael eu hariannu drwy gronfa, yr Young Audiences Content Fund, oedd yn dod drwy Lywodraeth San Steffan. Fe wnaeth hwnnw ddiflannu, a does dim byd cyfatebol wedi dod yn ei le fe. Mae hwn yn faes sydd dan straen mewn gwirionedd o ran ei wasanaethu. Mae unrhyw beth sy’n gallu rhoi mwy o gyllid tuag at wasanaethu cynulleidfa anodd i’w cyrraedd yn sicr yn mynd i gael ei groesawu. Ry’n ni hefyd yn gwneud cynnwys animeiddiadau ar gyfer plant yr oedran yma. Mae hynny’n golygu pethau ry’n ni’n datblygu’n fewnol neu ar y cyd. Ry’n ni’n cyd-gynhyrchu dipyn sydd hefyd yn dod â gwerth ychwanegol am yr arian, a hynny gyda’r Gwyddelod a TG4 fel darlledwr yn Iwerddon. Mae dau animeiddiad wedi cael eu cynhyrchu ganddyn nhw’n ddiweddar. Un o’r enw “Nolig” aeth mas dros y Nadolig ac un o’r enw “Lí Ban”. Ry’n ni’n edrych i archwilio mwy o bartneriaethau gyda nhw. Hefyd, weithiau ry’n ni’n prynu cynnwys. Roedd pryniannau fel “Shrek” a “Madagascar” ar S4C dros y Nadolig. Hefyd yn hynod o boblogaidd mewn rhai cartrefi—er bod o ddim i fi—yw “Bluey”. Ry’n ni’n gweld eto, pan rydan ni’n sôn am wylio digidol, gwylio digidol cwbl ryfeddol i “Bluey” ar iPlayer S4C dros y Nadolig. Felly mae nifer o feysydd gwahanol ar gyfer plant. Mae pethau ffeithiol, fel fformat pêl-droed o’r enw “Tekkers”, sydd wedi cael ei brynu gan y Gwyddelod fel fformat maen nhw’n awyddus i gyflwyno ar ei darllediadau nhw. Falle bod e’n syndod i rai, ond S4C yw’r ail gomisiynydd mwyaf o gynnwys plant yn y Deyrnas Unedig tu ôl i’r BBC. Ry’n ni’n falch iawn o hynny. (Translation) Yes, definitely. It is seen by many as a difficult age group to serve. We can be very proud that S4C does more than any other broadcaster in that arena. We do things such as “Our News” for children, to introduce them to news stories about the world around them. We have seen quite a lot of interest and success in drama for children of that age. We get feedback from Welsh-medium schools and schools that teach Welsh as a second language that those dramas can be very valuable for studying in the classroom. Recently, we have commissioned one or two dramas every year for that age group. Drama is expensive and difficult to fund. Sometimes, when you weigh up value, you look at the viewing figures. Viewing figures for children are not going to match peak hours viewing figures, but it is an important investment for us to make. During the past year, we have commissioned series called “The Corridor” and “Itopia” for children, and they have been very popular. They were funded quite considerably through tax credits, which have been very useful for children’s content, as a way of encouraging more production of this nature, as well as developing skills. They really are a useful tool, so I would like to see more of that happening. The tax credits we have are rapidly disappearing, so there is need for more of them to continue doing this. Some years ago, we commissioned other dramas. “Bex” and “Y Goleudy” were funded through the Young Audiences Content Fund that came through the Westminster Government. That disappeared and nothing comparable has been put in its place. This is an area that is under strain, and anything that can provide more funding towards serving a difficult-to-reach audience will be welcomed. We also provide animated content for children of this age, which we develop internally or jointly. We co-produce quite a lot which brings additional value for that money. That is with the Irish broadcaster TG4. There have been two animations recently produced by them, one called “Nolig”, which came out on S4C over Christmas and one called "Lí Ban”. We are looking to fund more partnerships with them. We also sometimes buy content, so purchases such “Shrek” and “Madagascar” were shown on S4C over Christmas, which you might have seen. There is also the very popular among certain households—though not for me—“Bluey”. When we talk about digital viewing, we saw astonishing digital viewing for “Bluey” over Christmas. Therefore, there are several different areas for children. There is a football format called “Tekkers” which was bought by the Irish as a format that they are keen to broadcast. It might surprise many, but S4C is the second biggest commissioner of children’s content in the UK after the BBC and we are very proud of that.

Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud, mae “Bluey” yn ffefryn gyda’n wyrion bach lleiaf fi, felly da iawn S4C. (Translation) I must say that “Bluey” is a favourite of my youngest grandchildren, so well done S4C.

Heb sôn am Mamgu. (Translation) Not to mention Grandma.

Mae’n rhaid eistedd yna, yn does? I fynd yn fwy difrifol, mae AI yn rhywbeth sy’n dod yn rhan bob dydd o’n bywydau ni. Beth yw’r heriau a’r buddiannau i S4C wrth edrych ar AI? You have to sit there, don’t you? Moving to something more serious, AI is becoming part of our everyday lives. What are the challenges and benefits for S4C looking at AI?

Yn sicr, mae’n rhaid i ni gofleidio’r cyfleon sy’n dod gydag AI. Mae deallusrwydd artiffisial yn dod mewn i waith tipyn o bob un erbyn hyn, ac fe ddylai fe ar gyfer ei fanteision. Dwi’n credu bod rhai pethau sydd angen eu gwarchod. Mae isio gwarchod bod AI ddim yn dod yna yn lle pobl. Dwi’n credu mai hwyluso a gwneud gwaith pobl yn fwy effeithiol yw’r defnydd ry’n ni’n chwilio amdano wrth sôn am AI, nid cymryd swyddi pobl. Mae hwnna’n egwyddor eithaf cyffredin gan S4C yn sicr, ac rwy’n siŵr gan ddarlledwyr gwasanaeth cyhoeddus eraill hefyd. Dydyn ni ddim eisiau bod AI yn cymryd creadigrwydd mas o’r broses o greu cynnwys; ychwanegu ato ddylai fe wneud. Roedd gennym arbenigwr AI mewn yn siarad gyda’r uwch dîm arwain yn S4C yr wythnos diwethaf. Roedd e’n dweud bod pawb yn trio gwneud y defnydd gorau gallen nhw o AI, yn meddwl bod pawb arall yn gwneud mwy na nhw a bod nhw ar eu hôl hi, ac felly mae pawb yn chwilio am y cyfrinachau mawr; y manteision mae AI yn mynd i gyflwyno iddyn nhw yn eu sgil e.   Un o’r gofidion i ni yw bod y Gymraeg yn cael ei gadael ar ôl oherwydd AI. Mae eisiau dysgu peiriannau yn y Gymraeg yn ogystal ag yn y Saesneg. Ry’n ni’n awyddus iawn, ar y cyd gyda Cymraeg 2050 Llywodraeth Cymru, i archwilio’r posibiliadau o gyflwyno modd o ddysgu peiriannau yn y Gymraeg drwy’r cynnwys sydd gennym. Mae cyfieithu, cyfieithu ar y pryd, cyfieithu cynnwys ar gyfer isdeitlo ac ati yn bethau lle mae ‘na fanteision yn gallu bod o ddefnyddio deallusrwydd artiffisial. Mae eisiau i S4C chwarae rhan gwbl ganolog yn hynny, fel bod AI yn Gymraeg yn ogystal, ac yn fanteisiol i ddarlledwyr eraill. (Translation) Certainly, we have to embrace the opportunities that AI brings. Artificial Intelligence comes into most people’s work now, and it should do for its advantages and benefits. I think there are some things that need to be protected against. We need to ensure that AI does not replace people. I think it is there to facilitate people’s work and make it more effective. That is the use of it that we are looking for. When we talk about AI, it is not to take people’s jobs. That is a common principle you will find in S4C and probably in other public service broadcasters as well. We do not want AI to take creativity away from the process of creating content; it should add to it. We had an AI expert speaking to the S4C senior leadership team last week and he said that almost everybody is trying to make the best possible use of AI. They think that everybody is doing more than they are, and that they may be behind the curve. Everybody is looking for those secrets; the advantages that AI will bring in its wake. One of our fears is that the Welsh language may be left behind because of AI. These machines need to be taught in Welsh as well as in English. We are eager, jointly with Cymraeg 2050 in the Welsh Government to look at the possibilities of introducing a way of teaching the machines through the medium of Welsh with the content that we have. Translation, interpretation, translating content for subtitles and so forth are things that can benefit from using AI. S4C has to play a central part in that so that AI is available in Welsh too, and is beneficial to other broadcasters.

Dim lot i ychwanegu; dwi’n derbyn pwynt y Cadeirydd. Mae’r Bwrdd yn cymryd diddordeb mawr yn y pwnc, ac eisiau gwneud yn siŵr bod ni’n manteisio ar y cyfleoedd sy’n dod gydag AI heb bod e’n effeithio ar swyddi: bod e’n cyfrannu at werth swyddi pobl, nid yn cymryd eu lle nhw. (Translation) I have nothing to add to that; I take on board the Chair’s point. The Board is taking a major interest in the subject, and wants to ensure that we take advantage of the opportunities that AI brings without it impacting jobs, so that it contributes to the value of people’s jobs and does not replace them.

Mae’r genie mas o’r botel ac mae’n rhaid rheoli fe. Dyna’r gwirionedd. ‘Na i’m ychwanegu dim; dwi’n cytuno cant y cant. Dyna’r peryglon: rhaid sicrhau bod e ddim yn tynnu bant oddi wrth greadigrwydd pobl, ddim yn golygu colli swyddi. Eto, mae defnydd positif ohono fe, ond bod e’n cael ei reoleiddio’n iawn. (Translation) The genie is out of the bottle, and we have to manage it. That is the truth of the matter. I will not add anything further. I agree 100% with what has been said. Those are the dangers: we must ensure that it does not detract from the people’s creativity, and that there are no job losses. There is a positive use for it as long as it is managed and regulated properly.

Fy ofn mwyaf i, a falle bod hwn yn eithaf personol, yw bod pobl sy’n creu yn colli hawlfraint. Bydden i byth moyn gweld hwnna’n digwydd. (Translation) My biggest fear—perhaps this is quite personal—is that the people who create will lose copyright. I would never want to see that happen.

Thank you very much for your brevity. It is much appreciated.

Can I move us on to funding? We have two years, or thereabouts, until the royal charter comes to an end. How confident are you that the next funding arrangement will be adequate to meet S4C’s needs? What opportunities are there for you to input in the forthcoming funding discussions that you are aware of to date?

We are obviously focusing very clearly on the Green Paper that has been announced and the consultation period that is coming up. S4C will put in a formal response to the Green Paper in the course of that. We very much welcome what has been mentioned in the Green Paper about S4C, because we feel that very careful consideration has been given to the importance of S4C as an independent public service broadcaster in Wales. That is woven throughout the document, as well as a commitment to maintain sufficient funding for S4C going forward. I know that this Committee has argued very strongly in favour of that in past reports, which we value very much. The commitment is there to provide sustainable funding for S4C—that is explicit in the Green Paper. We are also very keen to see that being contained very explicitly in the White Paper, so that S4C’s funding is secure and sustainable for the future. It is important that it is a sufficient level of funding to enable us to carry out what we think is incredibly important for the culture and the Welsh language in Wales, and that there is enough funding to support the future developments that we need to make to stay relevant in the digital media environment. That is something we expect to see in the White Paper. It is also important to us that funding is protected against any changes to the licence fee. If there is a reduction in the licence fee, which is explicitly predicted in the Green Paper, we think it is incredibly important that S4C does not suffer as a consequence, and that any new funding arrangement—any new framework—protects S4C funding. That is very important to us. To repeat: we very much welcome the consideration given to S4C and the recognition of the work that S4C, and all the production companies associated with S4C, do both for Welsh culture and the Welsh economy.

To add to what Delyth said, in terms of our relationship with DCMS and opportunities to contribute, I think that the Green Paper is a reflection of the positive dialogue we have with DCMS officials. There is good recognition of S4C and our needs in the Green Paper. To emphasise, what we are looking for in terms of being able to plan effectively for the future of S4C is that the funding is sufficient—it is good to see commitment from the Secretary of State to what is in the Communications Act 2003—and that it is predictable, so that we can plan ahead. For things like rights for sport and drama, you need some visibility of future funding to be able to do that effectively. It also has to be is sustainable. The big question with the licence fee is whether it is sustainable with fewer people paying, but we hope that S4C would be protected in that. As to how much funding we need going forward, that is the big question. We need to work together here to define what is expected of S4C as a public service broadcaster. If we had to serve all these audiences on different platforms and so on, it is quite likely that we would make the case for further funding, but that is something that is to come. There is a two-phase approach to this. Initially, it is about responding to the Green Paper as it is, which happens by mid-March, and after that we will make our submission to DCMS about the level of funding required for S4C to be able to continue doing what it does in all areas such as news, sport and so on, to serve all the audiences effectively and to be a catalyst for economic growth in Wales.

Building on that solid platform that you need, are there any opportunities that you are exploring for alternative funding to that funded by the UK Government? You mentioned the Green Paper. Talking about alternative options to the licence fee, are there any that you consider would be worthwhile to explore going forward?

Reading the Green Paper, it seems that anything that does not involve some element of licence fee is off the table. We have seen other PSBs across Europe—in Scandinavia, France and Germany—adopt other models, some based on general taxation that is ringfenced for broadcasting and others on a household levy. It seems that that is not part of the consideration for this Green Paper consultation. We are most definitely looking at other ways of funding and we already supplement what is coming from the public purse commercially with advertising—there is advertising on S4C. What we have seen with advertising is that, as linear viewing figures decline, the income from advertising has diminished for all broadcasters. That has not been offset by any growth in digital advertising as yet, and that is not likely to happen. We must be realistic as to how much income could be generated from advertising. We have a commercial board, of which Dyfrig is a member, and we are looking at investment. We are also looking at co-production as a means of bringing other alternative funding into the pot, so that we are producing more effectively, but we have to be realistic as to how much funding for S4C could come from any commercial sources.

The competition for advertising is huge. Why would people want to advertise? The way our viewing figures are collected by Barb is unfair, in that the sample is not big enough and it is not giving a true picture. We are suffering because of that. The commercial board is looking at hyper-local advertising as one method of bringing more money in along with sponsorship for programmes. It is hard work, but it is being done. We need to do more work on that. I definitely agree that we need to look at other ways of funding—but it is difficult. I cannot see that taking over.

One specific question in the Green Paper relating to the BBC and advertising is whether the BBC should be allowed to carry advertising. The concern that everybody would have among the other PSBs is that that is likely to take funds away from the overall pot. It would affect the advertising income that ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 and S4C were able to generate as a result and that would be a concern.

You have highlighted the funding issues coming your way—as with other public service broadcasters. Do you have any other thoughts about alternative funding streams? You mentioned funding streams that have dried up; are there any other funding streams or partnerships or relationships that you might like to develop in the future—obviously, not those that are trade secrets, but which you could share with the Committee?

There is quite a strong emphasis in the Green Paper on partnerships and collaborations that the BBC is encouraged to develop. We already have a very good relationship with the BBC in Wales. There is very close working both on the technology behind the broadcasting and in programme making. That is very important to us, but we are always looking for new collaborations with other countries. There is a very good relationship with the Irish broadcaster. That is something that the drama commissioners are looking at, particularly to get more value for what we produce for the public purse. Working closely with other producers and distributors is really important to get good content for our drama, which is very popular and well received. Collaboration and partnership are something we are focusing on.

Delyth mentioned our relationship with BBC Cymru, which is a good one. There have been some cost-saving exercises introduced already, such as our co-location at Central Square in Cardiff and the joint transmission operation for BBC Wales and S4C. We hope that the iPlayer relationship announced today will land very well with the Secretary of State, who suggested that we need to come together as PSBs to collaborate to confront the threat that we face from the streaming giants. Two licence fee-funded broadcasters coming together in this way shows that, if we work together, we can be far more effective.

Delyth, when you first came into this role, you wanted to have an open relationship with Government and politicians. Do you think that they are open? Is there anywhere you would like to change anything in your relationship with Government or politicians at all?

I think I have been pleasantly surprised by the level of support S4C receives across the parties, which is something that is very important to us. We work hard to maintain that relationship, and politicians across the board are very supportive. I am pleased at the recognition there is of the importance of what we do and the impact that we have, particularly in some of our more deprived communities, where those media, communications and creative industry jobs are so valuable—places like Llanelli, Carmarthen, north Wales, Caernarfon and so on. There is a real understanding among politicians across the board of the value of S4C to the creative economy. We have good relations with the Government. The then Minister for the Creative Industries came to see us last year, which was a good visit to have. The new Minister, who was appointed not long ago, has a visit organised for later on, and the Secretary of State is hoping to come as well. We have a good relationship at that level. With the Departments, there are regular meetings with departmental officials. As we mentioned earlier, we feel that is a good relationship in terms of our input into the Green Paper and the understanding of S4C. It is also worth saying that we have a good relationship with the Minister and the Government in Wales, and the Senedd. We feel very fortunate in having the level of support that we do, and I feel happy with the strength of those relationships.

That is good to hear.

Yn hollol, ydy. Rydyn ni wedi nodi diddordeb y Pwyllgor yma mewn chwaraeon ac yn gwybod eich bod chi’n gwneud hynny oherwydd bod chi’n poeni am beth sydd ar gael i’n gwylwyr ni gartref. Mae pobl eisiau bod nhw’n gallu gweld y timau cenedlaethol yn enwedig yn cystadlu ar y llwyfannau uchaf. Ar hyn o bryd, mae S4C wedi bod yn ffodus, drwy waith caled ein comisiynydd chwaraeon, ein bod ni wedi sicrhau hawliau i gemau pêl-droed dynion Cymru i gyd. Mae gyda ni hefyd uchafbwyntiau o gemau’r menywod ac roedd hi’n wych bod ni ’di gallu bod y darlledwr oedd yn dangos pob un o gemau’r menywod yn yr Euros yn y Swistir llynedd.   Ar gyfer rygbi, mae’r chwe gwlad yn rhywbeth sydd yn ei le erbyn hyn. Mae’n mynd i fod ar BBC, ITV ac yn y Gymraeg ar S4C. Mae ’na gystadleuaeth newydd o’r enw cystadleuaeth y cenhedloedd, sef gemau’r haf a’r hydref fel oedden nhw’n cael eu galw. Er bo’ fi ddim eisiau dweud gormod wrthych chi heddiw, mae’n saff i ddweud ein bod yn hyderus fydden ni’n cael yr hawliau ar gyfer rheiny hefyd ar gyfer gemau rhyngwladol rygbi dynion Cymru hyd at 2028-29. Beth mae hynny’n golygu yw y bydd gemau rhyngwladol dynion Cymru i gyd ar gael, ac yr unig le y byddan nhw gyd ar gael yw ar S4C tan 2029. (Translation) Yes, absolutely. We have noted the Committee’s interest in sport, and we know that that is because you are concerned about what is available to our viewers at home. You want the national teams, in particular, when competing on high-level platforms, to be seen. At the moment, S4C has been fortunate that through the hard work of the Sports Commissioner we have ensured the rights for all of the Welsh men’s football matches and some of the women’s. It was brilliant that as a broadcaster we were able to show all of the women’s matches in the Euros in Switzerland earlier last year. For rugby, the six nations is something that is in place by now. It is going to be on BBC, ITV and available in Welsh on S4C. There is a new competition, called the nations championship, which is what used to be known as the summer and autumn matches. I do not want to say too much today, but I am confident that we will get the rights for the men’s international rugby matches up until 2028-29. That means that the only place that the men’s international matches will all be available is on S4C, from now until 2029.

Diolch. Ga’ i gymryd y cyfle i ddiolch i chi am eich cefnogaeth ar adeg fy apwyntiad? (Translation) Thank you. May I take this opportunity to thank you for your support at the time of my appointment?

Roedd e’n bwysig iawn i mi ar y pryd. Dwi’n teimlo bod pethau’n mynd yn dda iawn ar lefel y Bwrdd. Oedd creu llywodraethiant cryf yn flaenoriaeth i fi ac wrth gwrs, mae’n dal i fod. Fel dywedais i’n gynt, mae gennym ni sgiliau cryf iawn o gwmpas y Bwrdd nawr, yn cynnwys o’r sector cynhyrchu ac mae hwnna’n help mawr i ni. Dwi’n teimlo bod ni’n cydweithio’n effeithiol. Mae’r shifft o’r ffordd o lywodraethu blaenorol, lle roedd gyda chi awdurdod, i fod yn Fwrdd unedol, yn newid gweddol fawr, ac mae hwnna’n ofnadwy o bwysig o ran sut ry’n ni i gyd yn cydweithio gyda’n gilydd. Dwi’n meddwl bod e’n deg i ddweud bod hwnna’n gweithio’n dda. Mae ‘na lefel o scrutiny a herio sy’n ofnadwy o bwysig, ond dwi’n teimlo bod pawb efo cyfraniad pwysig i wneud, bod pawb yn dod â rhywbeth gwahanol i’r bwrdd. Mae’n werth nodi bod dau aelod presennol o’r Bwrdd yn sefyll lawr yn y misoedd nesaf, felly byddwn ni’n chwilio am aelodau newydd i’r Bwrdd. Wrth gwrs, mae hwnna’n gam pwysig ac ry’n ni’n chwilio’n benodol am bobl efo arbenigedd yn y maes digidol, oherwydd y tirwedd ry’n ni’n gweithio ynddo fe nawr, a hefyd bydd angen rhywun gyda sgiliau cyfreithiol, felly byddwn ni’n chwilio am y sgiliau yna. Ond dwi’n meddwl bod gennym ni o gwmpas y Bwrdd nawr tîm effeithiol sy’n ymroddedig i ddyfodol S4C ac sy’n deall yr heriau, felly dwi’n hapus ynglŷn â’r ffordd mae hwnna’n mynd. Mae wedi bod yn gyfnod prysur, lot gyda fi i ddysgu a lot gyda ni i gyd fel tîm newydd o gwmpas y bwrdd i ddysgu. Ond dwi’n hapus iawn ynglŷn â’r ffordd mae pethau’n mynd. (Translation) It was very important at the time. I feel that things are going very well at a Board level. Creating strong governance was a priority for me, and it continues to be so. As I said earlier, we have strong skills around the Board now, including skills from the production sector, which is a big help to us. I feel that we are collaborating effectively. The shift from the previous way of governance, where you had an authority, to being a unitary Board is quite a major change. That is important for how we all work together. I think it is fair to say that that is working well. The level of scrutiny and challenge is important, but I feel that everyone has an important contribution to make—everyone brings something different to the table, or to the Board. It is worth noting that two current members of the Board are stepping down in the coming months, so we will be looking for new Board members. That is an important step. We are looking specifically for people with expertise in digital, because of the environment in which we are working. We also need some with legal skills. We will be looking for those skillsets. We have an effective team around the table now, who are committed to the future of S4C and understand the challenges. I am happy with the way forward and how things have gone. It has been a busy time. I have a lot to learn, and we all as a new team around the Board table have a lot to learn, but I am happy with the way things are going at the moment.

Dyfrig, this is a difficult question, because they are in the room, but how would you describe the relationship between the Chief Exec and the Chair of the Board? In the past, we have interviewed previous people and the relationships were, may I say, interesting. How would you describe that relationship now?

I would say it is a very good relationship, in the sense that there is trust and mutual respect, which is the starting point, but it is true to say that as a Board and Chair, we are always willing to challenge the executive, with Geraint as the Chief Executive—no problems there at all. Because of the mutual respect, however, that works well. My role as the lead independent member is to listen out for problems, and really I do not have a job unless there are problems—but I am not looking for them. I am listening out—and it is not just regarding the partnership here, because I think that works well at the moment, no problems at all; it is being aware of anything that changes that could affect that. We do not want to go back to places we have been before, if we can avoid that as much as possible. My job is to have my ears open and listen out for that, but I feel that there is a strong purpose; we are aiming for the same goals. Obviously, given the pace at which we have to change things, we are always going to challenge each other; otherwise, it will not be effective. However, I would say that there is trust, mutual respect and effectiveness across the board at the moment.

That is good to hear. Let me move on to Llinos Medi. Q17        Llinos Medi: Diolch. Mae hwn i chi hefyd, Delyth. Yn dilyn beth gofynnodd Ben gynna’, oeddech chi’n sôn pan roeddech chi yma hefo ni y tro diwethaf am yr angen i newid diwylliant. Mae’n hawdd i’w ddweud o, ond yn anoddach i’w weithredu fo, yn dydy? Felly y cwestiwn i chi ydy ydych chi’n teimlo bod chi ’di medru dylanwadu ar y diwylliant yna? Ydych chi’n gweld y diwylliant yn newid? O be’ ’dan ni’n glywed, mae’n swnio’n debyg. Sut ydych chi’n meddwl yn hir dymor fyddwch chi’n medru parhau â’r newid yna a’i gadw fo hefyd?   Q18        (Translation) Thank you. This is for you as well, Delyth. Following on from what Ben asked you earlier, you mentioned last time you were with us the need for a change of culture. It is easy to say that, but far more difficult to implement, is it not? The question for you is: do you feel that you have been able to influence the culture? Can you see that the culture is changing? From what we hear, it sounds as if it is. In the long term, how will you be able to continue with that change and keep it going?

Rwy’n meddwl bod ’na bethau mae rhywun yn gallu gwneud yn ymarferol o ran beth sy’n mynd ymlaen yn fewnol, a sut mae staff yn teimlo ynglŷn â’r sefydliad ac ydyn ni’n clywed yn ddigonol unrhyw bryderon sy’n codi. Un o’r pethau cyntaf nes i pan ddechreues i fel Cadeirydd oedd cael cyfarfodydd cyson gyda gwahanol dimau o fewn S4C—timau cyfreithiol, marchnata ac yn y blaen—jyst i ddeall sut oedden nhw’n gweld pethau. Hefyd, wnes i ofyn iddyn nhw a oedden nhw’n teimlo’n hyderus tasai ’na broblem yn codi. A fydden nhw’n gwybod pwy i fynd ato gyda’r broblem? Felly, dwi wedi bod yn cynnal y sgyrsiau yma’n rheolaidd gyda staff a dwi’n clywed pobl yn dweud pethau fel, “Mae’n teimlo fel lle gwahanol iawn i weithio i beth oedd o o’r blaen.” Wrth gwrs, mae hwnna’n rhywbeth dwi’n falch iawn i glywed. Hefyd, mae bod yn weladwy yn y swyddfeydd yn rhywbeth sy’n bwysig i fi: bod pobl yn gweld y Cadeirydd o gwmpas y lle ac yn teimlo bod nhw’n gallu dod lan a dweud helo a chael sgwrs. Mae’n rhywbeth dwi’n teimlo sy’n bwysig a dwi’n ’neud hynny yn wythnosol. Fy nheimlad i yw bod S4C mewn sefyllfa dda o ran y diwylliant mewnol. Mae ’na lot fawr o waith da wedi digwydd ar y lefel weithredol ac mae’r gwaith yna’n parhau. O safbwynt y Bwrdd, ni’n effro iawn i’r cwestiwn yma. Mae’n ofnadwy o bwysig i ni. Mae’r tîm adnoddau dynol yn dod i wneud cyflwyniad i’r Bwrdd, yn ystod y cyfarfod Bwrdd, ym mis Mawrth i ddiweddaru ni ar y gwaith sy’n mynd yn ei flaen. Dwi’n meddwl bod ni’n hyderus bod pethau’n mynd yn y cyfeiriad iawn. Mae pobl yn hapus i weithio yn S4C. Maen nhw’n falch o’u cyfraniad, ac maen nhw’n ymroddedig. Mae hwnna i’w groesawu ac yn ofnadwy o bwysig i’r gwaith ry’n ni’n ei wneud a sicrhau bod ni’n gwneud defnydd da o arian cyhoeddus, wrth gwrs. (Translation) I think something can be done at the practical level to understand what goes on internally, how staff feel around the organisation and whether we hear enough about any concerns that arise. One of the things that I did when I started as Chair was to have regular meetings with different teams in S4C—legal teams, commercial teams and so forth—just to understand how they saw things and to ask whether they felt confident that, if a problem were to arise, they would know who to approach with their problem. I have been having those conversations regularly with members of staff. I hear people saying things like, “It feels like a very different place to work from what it did before.” That is of course something I am very pleased to hear. Also, being visible in the offices is very important. People can see you around the place, and they can come up to you to say hello and have a conversation. That is something that I have felt is important and that I do on a weekly basis. My feeling is that S4C is in a good position on internal culture. An awful lot of good work has happened at operational level, and that work continues. On the Board, we are very alert to this question. It is very important to us. The human resources team come to give presentations to our Board meetings and are coming again in March to give us an update on the work that is going on, but I think we are confident that things are moving in the right direction. People are happy to work at S4C; they are proud of their contribution and they are committed. That is to be welcomed and is vital to the work that we do—and it is ensuring that we make good use of public money, of course.

Ga ’i ychwanegu mae Carwyn Donovan o BECTU wedi bod yn cadw llygad ac wedi bod mewn pan gychwynnodd y problemau gyda’r staff? Gaethon ni adroddiad yn y cyfarfod Bwrdd diwethaf ganddo fe yn cadarnhau beth mae Delyth newydd ddweud a dweud y gwir, bod ni ar y llwybr cywir a bod pobl lot hapusach. Mae ‘na reviews pulse wedi cael eu gwneud hefyd sy’n dangos bod e’n lle da i weithio a bod pobl lot hapusach nawr. Mae’n rhaid bod ni’n effro wrth gwrs i unrhyw beth o hyd. (Translation) To add to that, Carwyn Donovan from BECTU has of course been keeping an eye on this. He came in when the problems began and he worked with the staff. We had a report from him in the last Board meeting, which confirmed what Delyth has just said: we are moving along the right track and people feel much happier. Pulse reviews have been undertaken as well. They show that S4C is a good place to work and that people are far happier now. We still have to be alert to anything, of course.

Obviously it is good to hear that people are happy to come to work and the atmosphere is different from how it used to be. With the previous Chair, when we questioned HR policies and procedures, there was an absence of knowledge, so I am just wondering. In terms of the chief exec, Geraint and HR going forward, staff are aware of policies, are they? How do you ensure that staff actually get to know about these things?

We have done a lot of work on our culture internally. We now have a director of people and culture, rather than HR, because this is about people and culture. That is quite a change; it has been quite transformational. We have conducted a process whereby we have included everybody in some training around culture. We have embedded at S4C new values that really encourage people to celebrate their successes and to respect each other—to be ambitious and go for it, but in a very respectful way. That has been embedded across the staff, and it is not just a one-off event. It is something we are revisiting now; we have somebody coming in as an external consultant to hold these ongoing sessions with staff. That has led to greater awareness of the importance of culture. On the question of how aware they are, the recent pulse survey, which Dyfrig referred to, showed that 95% of staff are aware of things like the respect at work policy, which is a fantastic result. So the awareness is most definitely there. You have somebody like Carwyn Donovan, the BECTU officer for Wales, coming into the Board meeting and saying that he has seen an organisation that has been transformed. The words he used to me recently were that we were an exemplary employer. That is very good to hear. BECTU does not represent all our staff, but it represents a significant proportion, so it is good to hear that from the union. I think steps have been taken in the right direction. We should not rest on our laurels—this is always something that needs attention—but I think we are in a far more comfortable place. I think that staff should be able to complain, and staff have complained in the past year. This may seem an odd thing to say, but that is a good thing, because they know that they can, that it will be dealt with appropriately and that people will be dealt with fairly.

That is helpful; thank you, Geraint. Delyth, when you first came in, you talked about your desire to introduce whistleblowing procedures to enable people to report anything they might be concerned about. How have you got on with doing that? Obviously, it is good to hear about the pulse questionnaire responses and the union involvement, but have you managed to introduce whistleblowing procedures as well?

When we looked at that, we found that the procedures that were in place previously covered all the issues that they needed to cover. The problem was that people were not aware of those processes or using them properly, or the whistleblowing procedures were not the right way to carry forward some of the concerns that people had, because they did not meet the necessary criteria for a whistleblowing procedure to be taken forward. So I think we are confident that we do have the right procedures in place. What is important to me is that people in the organisation have the confidence to know where they should go if they have a concern. When I ask people about that, as I do in all the meetings that I have been having, they say that they do feel that. One of the problems previously was that people did not feel confident to take a concern forward, or felt that it was not being listened to. That is not the case now; I think people feel that they know where to go and, if a formal process did not work, they would have another way forward. I feel confident that that is the right structure that we have in place now.

When we were appointed, there was an induction introducing us to all the policies, which has been good from the Board point of view. Therefore, the staff know that the Board knows and, as a unitary body, we can actually help them. That is important. You can say that it has been spread throughout the whole company.

Roedd rheina, wrth gwrs, yn bethau sydd wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol. Mae’n hyfryd i weld bod pethau wedi symud, wedi gwella a wedi symud ymlaen. Dy’n ni’n edrych ymlaen nawr i ddyfodol darlledu yng Nghymru. Wrth weld rhaglenni S4C yn cael lle llawer mwy amlwg ar Netflix a Sky, allwch chi, Geraint, adlewyrchu eich cydweithio gyda’r rhain? Oes lle i ni hefyd i fynd at gwmnïau mawr fel Disney, Amazon Prime—soi’n gwybod beth yw’r lleill i gyd, a dweud y gwir? Ife i’r cyfeiriad yna y byddech chi’n hoffi gweld darlledu Cymru’n mynd a chael rhyw gytundeb gydag S4C wrth i ni symud ymlaen? (Translation) We are touching on things that happened in the past, and it is really lovely to hear that things have moved forward and improved. Let’s look forward now to the future of broadcasting in Wales. On seeing S4C programmes having a far more prominent position on Netflix and Sky, for example, can you, Geraint, reflect on your collaboration with them? Is there an opportunity for us to approach large companies like Disney and Amazon Prime—I do not know what all the others are, to be honest? Is that the direction you would like to see Welsh broadcasting move in and have some agreement with S4C moving forward?

Mae yna ambell i gyfle wedi codi. Bydden i ddim yn dweud mai dyma yw’r dyfodol. Buodd cyfres gyntaf “Dal y Mellt” ar Netflix—y ddrama Gymraeg gyntaf i fod ar Netflix—ond dwi ddim yn hyderus mai dyna yw’r dyfodol chwaith. Hynny yw, dy’n ni eisiau bod pobl yn ymwneud â chynnwys Cymraeg ble bynnag maen nhw, wrth gwrs. Ond mae cyllidebau ar gyfer cyd-gynhyrchu gan Sky, Amazon, Disney neu Netflix ar lefel na gyrhaeddwn ni fyth, mewn gwirionedd. Felly, mae’n rhaid i ni fod yn realistig am hynny. Mae yna bobl hefyd wedi dweud wrtho i y dylai fod mwy nag un sianel ganddo ni yng Nghymru, achos bod angen i S4C i fod yn BBC 1, BBC 2, BBC Three, Channel 4 a Channel 5 i gyd gyda’i gilydd. Mae hynny’n wir, wrth gwrs. Ond dwi ddim yn credu y dylai fod mwy nag un sianel. Dwi’n credu mai beth sydd angen i ni wneud yw sicrhau ein bod ni’n cryfhau brand S4C. Mae S4C yn sefyll am rywbeth, ond mae’n sefyll hefyd am fod yn fwy na sianel deledu; mae’n sefyll am y lle gorau i gael cynnwys yn y Gymraeg. Ein gwaith ni yw cael y cynnwys yna mas ar y platfformau mwyaf addas. Mae pobl wedi gofyn i fi yn y gorffennol pam ein bod ni’n gwario arian ar gynnwys ar gyfer YouTube pan gallai fe fod yn cael ei wario ar gynnwys ar gyfer S4C. Wel, oherwydd bod yna gynulleidfa yno. Pan gafodd S4C ei sefydlu, teledu, mewn ffordd, oedd maes y gad ar gyfer dyfodol yr iaith achos dyna oedd y cyfrwng poblogaidd ar y pryd. I fi, nawr, mae’r frwydr dros yr iaith yn frwydr ar sawl ffrynt a mae’n rhaid i ni ymladd hwnna ar YouTube, ar TikTok, ar Instagram, yn ogystal ag ar y platfformau ffrydio sydd gyda ni, trwy ddefnyddio arfau fel Clic ac iPlayer i gyrraedd cynulleidfaoedd newydd. Felly, ydy, mae’r amcan yno i gyrraedd cynulleidfaoedd newydd bob tro, ond brand S4C yw’r peth sy’n uno hynny i gyd. Rhoi’r gefnogaeth ariannol i ni allu mynd mas yno a pharhau i gomisiynu cynnwys o’r safon uchaf—mae safon yn bwysig, a pan mae pobl yn clywed am bethau o safon, mae’n nhw’n mynd i chwilio amdanyn nhw—a’i gael e mas yno’n amlwg ar y platfformau yna, dyna yw’r dyfodol i fi. (Translation) Some opportunities have arisen. I would not say that this is the future. The first series of “Dal y Mellt” or “Rough Cut” was the first Welsh-medium drama on Netflix, but I am not confident that that is the future either. We want people to be involved in Welsh-medium content wherever they are, of course, but in terms of co-production with Sky, Amazon, Disney or Netflix, their budgets are at a level we will never reach, so we have to be realistic about that. People have also said to me that there should be more than one channel for us in Wales, because S4C has to be BBC 1, BBC 2, BBC Three, Channel 4 and Channel 5. That is true, of course, but I do not think there should be more than one channel. I think we need to make sure that we strengthen the S4C brand. S4C stands for something, and it stands for being more than a TV channel; it stands for the best place to have content in Welsh. Our work is to get that content out on the most appropriate platforms. People have asked me in the past why we spend money on content for YouTube, when it could be spent on content for S4C. It is because there is an audience there. When S4C was established, television was the way forward for the Welsh language because it was the popular medium at the time. For me, the battle for the Welsh language is now a battle on several fronts. We have to fight on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram, as well as on the streaming platforms by using tools such as Clic and iPlayer to reach new audiences. The objective to reach new audiences is there all the time, but the S4C brand is the thing that unites all of that and pulls it together. For me, financial support to enable us to go out there and continue commissioning the highest standard of content—because standard is important, and when people hear about things that are of high quality, they are going to go and look for them—and to get it out there on those platforms is the future.

Âf i at y tri ohonoch chi ond wnai dy adael di ddiwethaf, Delyth, fel Cadeirydd y Bwrdd, i gael y llais ola’. Beth mae dyfodol teledu Cymru yn edrych fel? (Translation) I am looking at the three of you, but I may leave you to have the last word, Delyth, as the Chair of the Board. What does the future of television in Wales look like?

Mae hwnna’n gwestiwn a hanner. Hynny yw, mae teledu llinol yn diflannu a fe fyddwn ni’n gwylio ar wahanol mathau o blatfformau—dy’n ni’n gwybod hynny—felly, bod gyda ni’r cynnwys gorau ac amrywiaeth o gynnwys. Y broblem sy’n ein gwynebu ni, mewn gwirionedd, yw gofalu bod pobl yn gwybod am y cynnwys hynny—mae marchnata yn bwysicach nag erioed. Os gai droi’r cwestiwn ar ei ben, fel petai, ble fydden ni heb S4C? Ble fyddai darlledu yn y Gymraeg wedi bod hebddi? Wel, byddai fe ddim. Byddai wedi cael ei lyncu—ei draflyncu, a dweud y gwir—a bydden ni ddim yn y sefyllfa dy’n ni ynddi. Dy’n ni mewn sefyllfa anodd ond mae yna gryfder ac, yn fwy na dim byd arall, mae yna awydd i’r peth i weithio. Mae e yn golygu bod rhaid i ni wynebu’r heriau enfawr yma: cyllid yw rhif 1, amlygrwydd sy’n ail a dy’n ni’n taclo hwnna, ac yn drydydd, ein bod ni’n marchnata’r cynnwys ar gyfer y carfannau iawn o bobl a’u bod nhw’n cael mynediad iddo fe. Mae hwnna’n cynnwys yn bobl sy’n dod at y Gymraeg am y tro cyntaf—y gynulleidfa newydd—ond peidio byth ag anghofio’r gynulleidfa graidd. (Translation) That is a question and a half. Linear television is disappearing and we will be viewing on different kinds of platforms—we know that—so it is about having the best content and a variety of content. The problem we face is ensuring that people know about the content. Marketing is more important than ever. If I can turn the question on its head, so to speak, where would we be without S4C? Where would broadcasting in Welsh have been without it? It would not have been, as it would have been swallowed up—to be honest, it would have been devoured—and we would not be in the position that we are in. We are in a difficult situation, but there is strength, and more than anything else, there is a desire and an appetite for this to work. It does mean that we have to face these huge challenges. First is funding. Second is prominence, which we are tackling. And third is marketing the content for the right cohorts of people and that they can access it. That includes people who are approaching the Welsh language for the first time—the new audience—but we must never forget the core audience.

Rwy’n credu bod gennym ddyfodol llewyrchus iawn. Mae yna greadigrwydd anhygoel yng Nghymru ac mae gennym sector gynhyrchu arbennig o gryf, sydd yn awchu am greu cynnwys yn y Gymraeg. Mae llawer ohonom wedi rhoi ein gyrfaoedd i gynhyrchu neu gomisiynu cynnwys yn y Gymraeg oherwydd bod y Gymraeg yn bwysig i ni—llawer y gallent wedi mynd i weithio i le bynnag buasen nhw eisiau ond yn dewis gweithio yn y Gymraeg, dros Gymru mewn gwirionedd. Rwy’n falch iawn o’r sector sydd gennym yn S4C. Felly gallem ni gael ffydd yn y talent. Mae eisiau’r cyllid i gefnogi hynny er mwyn sicrhau safon ac i barhau i fod yn fwy na sianel deledu. Dydyn ni ddim yn cael yr arian i gynhyrchu cynnwys yn unig; drwy hynny, mae ffyniant economaidd yn dod i bob cwr a chornel o Gymru. Rwy’n gweld Llinos Medi o Sir Fôn fan hyn—mae Stiwdio Aria yna, ac rwy’n meddwl am y gwaith mae “Rownd a Rownd” yn ei wneud ers 30 mlynedd. Mae lot i’w ddathlu ymhob ran o Gymru. Mae Tinopolis yn y gorllewin, ac mae gennym gwmnïau bach yn Yr Egin, fel Carlam, yn ogystal â’r hwb sydd yng Nghaerdydd. Mae S4C felly yn gatalydd economaidd, sydd yn hynod o bwysig. Rhowch chi’r pethau yna at ei gilydd ac mae gennym ddyfodol llewyrchus. Beth ry’n ni angen—gan wleidyddion mewn gwirionedd—yw cefnogaeth i sicrhau ein bod yn cael yr amlygrwydd sydd ei angen fel bod pobl yn gwybod amdanom ni. Fe wnewn ni’n gwaith: comisiynu cynnwys o safon; defnyddio platfformau cyfryngau cymdeithasol a’n dulliau marchnata a chyfathrebu i gael y negeseuon mas. Rhaid cael y gefnogaeth i sicrhau bod yr amlygrwydd yn mynd i fod yna i ddarlledu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn y Gymraeg ac i ddarlledu gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yn ei gyfanrwydd. Mae’n bwysig i ddyfodol ein cenedl bod pobl yn ymwybodol o’r hyn sy’n digwydd yn eu byd nhw. Yn arbennig, o ran dyfodol y Gymraeg, mae’n bwysig bod y gefnogaeth yna ar gyfer S4C hefyd. (Translation) I think we have a very prosperous future ahead of us. There is amazing creativity in Wales, and we have a very strong production sector that is eager to create content in Welsh. Many of us have dedicated our careers to producing or commissioning content in Welsh because the Welsh language is important to us. Many could have gone to work wherever they wanted but chose to work in Welsh; in truth, to work for Wales. I am very proud of the sector we have in S4C. We can be confident in the talent that we have. Finance is needed to support that, to ensure standards and to continue to be more than a TV channel. We do not get that funding only to produce content; through it, economic prosperity comes to all sectors and corners of Wales. I see Llinos Medi from Ynys Môn here, and we know about Stiwdio Aria and the work “Rownd a Rownd” has undertaken around there for the past 30 years. There is a lot to celebrate in all parts of Wales—including Tinopolis in west Wales, and small companies located in Yr Egin, such as Carlam, as well as the hub in Cardiff. S4C is therefore an economic catalyst, and that is extremely important. If you put all those things together, we will have a prosperous future. What we need from politicians is support, to ensure that we have the necessary prominence so that people know about us. We will do our work. We will commission high-quality content and use the social media platforms and our marketing and communications methods to get those messages out there. We need support to ensure prominence for public service broadcasting in Welsh and for public service broadcasting as a whole. It is important for the future of our nation that people are aware of what is going on in their world, and particularly for the future of the Welsh language, it is important that that support is there for S4C too.

Rwy’n cytuno llwyr. Y cyfan byddwn i’n ategu yw fy mod i’n teimlo bod gan S4C rôl canolog wrth ddiogelu dyfodol darlledu yng Nghymru ac wrth sicrhau ein bod ni mewn sefyllfa lle ry’n ni’n gallu creu rhaglenni a chynnwys o’r safon uchaf. Ry’n ni’n gwybod bod y talent a’r creadigrwydd yna, felly ein lle ni yw gosod y strategaeth a’r weledigaeth a wedyn cefnogi’r sector ar draws Cymru i greu’r cynnwys. Mae S4C yn mynd i edrych yn wahanol iawn i heddi, achos bydd symudiad cynyddol at y byd digidol a gwahanol blatfformau. Bydd y cynnwys felly yn edrych yn wahanol ac yn amlwg yn llawer mwy amrywiol nag yw e nawr, ond byddem yn cynnal y safon uchel sydd gennym ac yn sicrhau ein bod ni’n ateb anghenion ein cynulleidfaoedd i gyd. Bydd S4C ar ganol gyrru’r weledigaeth, a, fel Geraint, rwy’n hyderus ar gyfer y dyfodol. (Translation) I wholeheartedly agree. All I would add is that we feel that S4C has a central role in safeguarding the future of broadcasting in Wales, and in ensuring that we are in a position to create content and programmes of the highest standard. We know that the talent and creativity exist out there, and it is our place to set out the strategy and vision and then support the sector across Wales to create the content. S4C is going to look very different from how it looks today, because there will be an increasing move towards digital and different platforms. The content is going to look different, and it is obviously going to be far more diverse than it currently is. However, we will maintain our high standard and make sure that we meet the needs of all our audiences. S4C will be at the centre of driving that vision, and I, like Geraint, am confident about the future.

On a personal note, I want to say thank you so much for televising the Six Nations and the football—especially the women’s football. As a Welsh learner, it is a great way to learn while enjoying the sport. Your commentary is always consistent, so that is really helpful. We have a bit of time remaining. I have one question for each of you. It is great to be able to look forward rather than reviewing, so in your current roles, what is the one priority that you want to be going forward with in the next 12 months?

I do not want to repeat myself too much, but it is about securing prominence for S4C. There is a lot of work that we need to do with stakeholders to build that case. My second point is about securing future funding for S4C, so that we can plan effectively for the future. If we think that Welsh language broadcasting and public service broadcasting are important, it should be supported sufficiently so that we can generate even more wealth around Wales as a result. One final thing: we need to be bold, innovative and prepared to change. It is not about staying where we are now; it is about looking to the future. The future is going to be quite different—it already is—but all our audiences are consuming their content digitally, and we should not be afraid of that. We should embrace it.

He has taken most of my points! We must ensure the culture within S4C, working with the sector and our stakeholders, continues to improve and flourish—it is that simple. I will also say that, yes, we are looking forward to challenging the Executive to make sure that things work in that way, so that we have an S4C that we are so, so proud of and that does a fantastic job, which is what we have.

The one thing I would focus on, above all, is charter review, because that is what is going to set out and safeguard S4C’s future. We need to make the case as efficiently and effectively as we can about the value of S4C, both to Welsh culture and the Welsh economy. We must ensure that the White Paper gives sufficient protection and guarantees for secure funding in future. This is obviously something that you, as Members of Parliament, are going to be spending a lot of time looking at. We very much welcome the support you have given to us up until now, and we hope that we can maintain that for the future. That is how we can continue to deliver what we want to do for the period ahead.

I thank all three witnesses for coming in—Delyth Evans, Geraint Evans and Dyfrig Davies. Thank you so much for appearing in person. I thank our interpreter, Nerys—I always forget to thank the interpreter. Diolch yn fawr.