Speeches by Lowe.

“Thames Water.”

“Sir Geoffrey, there is a lot that needs to be dealt with.”

“Equally, the other issue was that there was a fire at a chemical store on the banks of the river. There was hydrochloric acid, and the fire brigade could not therefore put the fire out. This hydrochloric acid got into the river. It took you five years to deal with it.”

“I have one more question on this for Philip. I find that, at the Environment Agency, you all trip over each other, so I do not think DEFRA is giving you the leadership. It is not entirely your fault; you come in under its umbrella. Giving you a personal example, I have had two problems. Part of the River Colne runs thr…”

“Are you? You are giving me lots of aspiration—”

“I hear all that. I declared my interest as an active farmer, and I have to tell you that my experience of DEFRA is a very poor one. Most farmers would agree with me that DEFRA is not fit for purpose. Your rulebook mutates like a virus. Half the time you shut your schemes within 24 hours because you have got it wrong, a…”

“Do you think they are setting them correctly?”

“You say that, but at the beginning you said you were driven to improve an outcome-based sort of situation, which I agree with; that is what you need. However, I read, as you say, three pieces of legislation increasing the complexity of the regulatory landscape. Then I read that DEFRA is largely reactive to “short-term……”

“Is that what you are telling me?”

“Is this a long way of saying, “We don’t need to start with a clean sheet of paper?””

“I would like to go back to the beginning, please. I read the NAO Report entitled “Environmental regulation”, which concluded that DEFRA’s largest environmental regulators, the Environment Agency and Natural England, face several challenges to regulating efficiently and effectively. These include the constraints of the …”

“I should declare that I am, among other things, an active farmer and therefore come into regular contact with the bodies that these fine people run.”

“I will not challenge you to a corridor race today, Mr Speaker, but good luck with your leg. I wrote to the Chancellor on 8 January, with the support of 7,000 small businesses from across the spectrum—not just pubs. They are concerned about not only rate re-evaluations, and the vicious tax rises that they have had to su…”

“Because we know, Conrad, that it is easier to spend other people’s money than your own, very often. No more questions from me, Chair—you will get bored of me.”

“It is similar to a small company not needing an audit.”

“Well, they are generating their own money. They are not just spending.”

“Who is driving that? Who is responsible for that? In my experience, unless someone is responsible, nothing ever happens.”

“That worries me.”

“Are you collectively comfortable that enough is being done to take full advantage of shared services, or is there more you can do?”

“I am finding it very enlightening to learn about these small Government bodies. Given that we are looking at only bodies that spent up to £30 million with up to 50 employees, I think it is fair to say that we are looking at the tip of the iceberg rather than the base of the iceberg, which is what sank the Titanic. I ha…”