Speeches by Lowe.

“It does seem to be an integral part of delivery, though.”

“As you know, James, it is basically a state monopoly. That is what NS&I is. We know that.”

“So it does have a real cost to the British taxpayer.”

“Okay, thank you for that. I now have a question for Sam. When you answered the Chair’s question about premium bonds, although it is not going to affect the prize money, do you accept the fact that it will affect the amount of money for you to make available to pay for public services? The fact that we have wasted a lot…”

“Corporate sector experience, I would say, by the sound of it.”

“More cost.”

“Are you going to be able to deliver this? Have you got the right staff to deliver it? Are we going to be sitting here in a year’s time having the same conversation? As you probably know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Are we going to make progress and …”

“My question was about staff, Dax. Have you got the right staff to deliver what is required? You chose to go a high-risk route, and so far you have failed to deliver it. Matthew, I think you have been involved in this for some time.”

“I have recently joined the Public Accounts Committee, and in my short time on the Committee I have come across qualified accounts and local authorities not having audited accounts; only 4% of them have audited accounts. I have watched the Government wasting almost endless amounts of money, and then I witness this madne…”

“Is that accurate? Other sources say that it could be significantly higher. Is it significantly higher?”

“My question is for Cat. I am a little confused, so I would be grateful if you could just clarify. The NAO Report says, “As of 2022-23, central Government spend on consultants was estimated by HM Treasury to be approximately £1.36 billion, but other sources suggest the figure could be significantly higher”. Was it signi…”

“One would think that, with so many new people working for the civil service, an administrative burden would not be a problem, but logic probably does not play too big a part in it.”

“It is an estimate; it is not actual.”

“It is extraordinary that you do not know the exact figures. If you are running a business, you know the exact figures. You have it and you can look at it, but it sounds to me like they are all estimates and are all up in the air.”

“Is that not what we need to see in order to be able to decide whether you have halved it? Your stated aim is to halve. In order to halve something, you need to know what the figure you are halving is, do you not?”

“It is consultants, really.”

“If the Chair will indulge me, I note that the civil service now amounts to a headcount of about 551,000, which is up 35% on 2016. When you are hiring all these new people, are you hiring people with the skills that you are spending money on with consultants? You say that you are now doing an analysis of what skills the…”

“So we can assume that these other sources are wrong. Are they wrong that spending is significantly higher?”

“You might expect them to, but do you have that detail?”

“Do you have a dashboard of what you have spent with each of these consultants? Can you tell me how much you spent with Deloitte or with each of these consultants in a concise spreadsheet? In my businesses, we look at how much we spend each year with each of our suppliers, and we then beat them up to get a discount. Are…”