Speeches by Madders.

“Do you get a sense from this Government that there is any sense of urgency in the imperative to sort this out? Obviously, investment decisions are taken over much longer timeframes than we are talking about.”

“But when you give the bill, for want of a better description, to Fujitsu, you are going to have to have some sort of rationale for it, so are you thinking about how that might be constructed?”

“Okay, but if Sir Wyn does not produce the recommendations in a way that gives you a nice straightforward percentage—for want of a better description—to provide to Fujitsu, have you given any thought to how you might start to construct something?”

“Mr McDougall, you and your predecessors have always said that the time for calculating a portion of compensation in terms of Fujitsu’s contribution will come when Sir Wyn Williams’s recommendations come forth. I take it from that that you are confident that he will express them in a way that allows you to do that.”

“It is quite interesting that Horizon may have been installed earlier than we thought—that probably needs a bit of processing in itself. In terms of the time that this has taken, these convictions were obviously 30-plus years ago in some cases. Are you concerned that some of the people involved may pass away before this…”

“Sometimes the information is just not going to be there any more, but are there occasions when there is information, but it is taking rather longer than it ought to get hold of it?”

“When you start looking at one of these, it sounds like you have literally no idea where it will lead or how long it will take. That is something that we want to try to understand: do you have any idea what sort of length of time the investigations will take?”

“You are confident. Do you know the approximate value of the reprocurement exercises?”

“Given that you have already indicated that you wish to make a contribution towards the costs, has there been any discussion about payment terms being altered in any way to take account of that—an advance payment, for example?”

“Okay, but in terms of completely new business—”

“Of that 46, some of them would probably come within the third category: where there is a requirement for new goods and services not currently provided by Fujitsu with its existing customers, Fujitsu would very carefully assess the existing customers’ requirements and need for Fujitsu’s skills and capabilities. You are …”

“Okay. Have there been any circumstances where contracts have come up for retendering within the description when you have decided not to bid?”

“If it is a new contract issued by Government, you have no guarantees that you would get it, so surely that would be new business.”

“Okay. That’s fine. I will move on to new contracts. You have made statements about not bidding for new Government contracts. It is probably helpful to go through the detail of that, because it is not quite as clearcut as some of the other statements that have been made. I am looking particularly at the letter that Fuji…”

“Does that mean that you have spoken to your auditors about this, or that you haven’t?”

“I will ask about Government contracts in a second, but I want to return to provision for some payment by Fujitsu, because it is fair to say that we are all a bit incredulous that there appears to be no provision at all. What conversations have you had with your auditors about how that should be treated?”

“And they have advised that it is not necessary to make a provision in the accounts?”

“Just to try to get some balance, are there any redeeming features to the HSS? Are there clients who go away content with what has been offered there? Or is it simply just a hurdle that you have to go through?”

“Can I just check, Dr Hudgell, that your view is also that more complex cases should just go straight to the appeal with DBT?”

“Do the other witnesses have anything to add to that?”