Speeches by Grady.

“Sir Robert, you are nodding. Briefly, do you agree with what Mr Hughes has said?”

“Briefly, Sir Robert, is there anything you would change in the architecture of the political and parliamentary side and its interaction with the OBR, along the lines of what Mr Hughes has mentioned?”

“Dame Meg has mentioned, for instance, having a debate or statement in Parliament on the long-term report. Are there any other architectural changes you would suggest on the political side of the table in responding to the OBR’s longer-term projections?”

“To really come to the point, do you think that we as politicians need to do a bit more to face into the long-term challenges that Britain faces?”

“Do you feel that the fiscal lock has strengthened the OBR’s independence?”

“I might be asking the wrong people these questions, but I am sure you will have some light to shed on this: what was the investor base for the 2021 sukuk? Who were the buyers?”

“Minister, we could take a lot of time on this, so I suggest that the Treasury write to the Committee to explain how it will make sure that it is as clear as possible to busy small businesses owners, including the steps it is taking to understand the impact from a business owner’s point of view.”

“That means legislation.”

“This is a very complicated area, as you have explained. What you say suggests that people may have underestimated the impact of the changes. I want you to think for a moment about those people. Imagine you are a publican; you are a husband-and-wife team getting your two kids off to school; you have a load of stuff to d…”

“May I declare that I am chair of the APPG on Qatar, given that we are discussing Islamic finance?”

“That would suggest that in the Treasury, or in the pool of people who had access to this information, there are evidential gaps that meant you were unable to trace how it was leaked—so people deleted messages, did not keep a proper diary of what they were up to or whatever.”

“Obviously, people use Islamic finance in Britain because we have a Muslim population that includes many successful businesspeople who fund things through Islamic finance. Out of interest, what do you think about the fact that we are not issuing another sukuk? Does that have any impact on the UK’s position as an interna…”

“I have a couple of follow-up questions. Do you understand the mechanism by which this information was leaked? Was it electronically? Was it in person?”

“What is behind the delay in primary legislation? Is it that politicians are dragging their feet? Is it that we don’t have enough civil service capacity—at the same time as we are looking to downsize the Treasury? Is it a lack of particular skills in the Treasury, such as draftsmanship and legislative drafting skills? W…”

“So another hidden cost of Brexit is that we haven’t been able to undertake the legislative modernisation to get growth.”

“And when would you expect that primary legislation to be advanced?”

“To turn it on its head, before I go back to Dame Meg, are you confident that the civil service in the Treasury is able to progress this, so that, for example, we can get this legislation into the next King’s Speech, if we so desired?”

“Only myself and Mr Dickson were there, and he was very young. When will phase 2 of the consultation on the Consumer Credit Act open?”

“I think that is all we can pursue on that.”

“Just before we move on to primary legislation again, the Consumer Credit Act passed in 1974, when we had only three TV channels and “Rising Damp” made its debut, and the ATM had come in only in 1967. It was a very different payments landscape.”