Speeches by Robinson.

“On that—not to be difficult, Chair—a recurring issue that comes up when we are engaging with organisations on how they raise revenue is that, if they are non-government bodies, non‑departmental bodies, arm’s‑length bodies and so on, they have more flexible ways in which they can borrow off books, but it i…”

“Does that mean that these bodies are all still being considered on a piecemeal basis, rather than having a structured conversation with Treasury about how some of them could borrow in a way that does not damage the sustainability of the Department’s budget?”

“Just so that it is not tokenistic, you will be aware that the spring Budget allocated £2 million to an education and skills centre on the Shore Road in north Belfast, a deprived area of the city. It was paused by MHCLG. The Deputy Prime Minister is now minded to end that funding and not allocate £2 million to a much-ne…”

“Good morning, Minister. Good morning, Neil and Joanne. If you do not mind, Minister, I will follow up on that. Neil, when you say that it will be ready in time for the spending review considerations, how does that tie in with the conclusion to the negotiations on the fiscal framework?”

“Minister, forgive me. I was asking Neil because he was answering that lastly. Feel free to answer this if that is more appropriate. Is this work that Gerry Holtham is going to conduct separate and distinct from the needs assessment conducted by the Fiscal Council? Is it going to sit alongside that work and how will you…”

“Thanks, Neil. I want to come back to you on a spreadsheet question in a moment. Minister, what is your current involvement in and understanding of the progress being made in your negotiations on the fiscal framework and when do you believe those negotiations will conclude?”

“Thank you very much, Minister, and can I thank you for coming to the Committee? The Chief Secretary to the Treasury has yet to accept and has, at this stage, declined. We value the fact that you are willing to talk to us about this issue at this time and, as a Committee, we want to be helpful in that process. Neil, did…”

“Did you see Ciarán Hayes talk about his understanding of the overspend that was accumulated when need was not matched?”

“The suggestion was that, whenever a deal was reached back in December 2023, which then culminated in the interim fiscal framework, the Executive was in the same position as it would have been had need been backdated to the start of the CSR period. My understanding is that that is incorrect. While he is looking at and t…”

“Thank you. With no notice, that was helpful and, for the purposes of this inquiry, it would be useful if you could write to us, as I asked Mr Hayes to write to us as well.”

“Good morning, Minster. Morning, gentlemen. Minister, what is your personal involvement in negotiating the new fiscal framework?”

“You are not personally involved in the negotiations overall, but you have personal responsibility for some aspects. Is this a recurring feature in your workload on a weekly basis? Are you engaging regularly on issues around fiscal sustainability in Northern Ireland?”

“When you do that, and you engage with Ministers of Health and Education here in Whitehall who have no departmental responsibility for Northern Ireland, are you doing that in conjunction with devolved elected representatives in Northern Ireland, or are you doing that on your own?”

“When do you think the negotiations on the fiscal framework will conclude?”

“This process was commenced and concluded in the first draft phase by the previous Government. At that time, there was criticism of the previous Government because they were not going back to the start of the CSR period. They were not ensuring that the financial losses, when need was not met in Northern Ireland, were me…”

“It is a political question, Ciarán. Yes, you have an official answer to give, but it is a political question. Labour criticised the lack of backdating within the three-year CSR period and recognised that because the fiscal arrangements did not go back within that three-year period, the Executive were hamstrung. The Exe…”

“If the Secretary of State is responsible, it would have been good to hear from him, I would say, respectfully. If the Cabinet Minister in the Treasury, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, has overarching responsibility for this, it would have been good to hear from him too. Thank you, Minister.”

“You are saying that the Executive were told, “We will write off the debt that you should not have in the first place, as long as you provide us savings of £113 million or £115 million per year”.”

“You would accept that the overspends were less than the sum that would have been delivered to the Executive if need had been met. There is a loss to the Executive in that calculation. You would accept that.”

“You fairly outlined some of the budgetary challenges earlier, and you suggested that over a significant period of time your budget has increased by 3%. The Health Department’s budget in the last 10 years has more than doubled. It has increased by almost 150%. The education budget has more than doubled; it went from £1.…”