Speeches by Reynolds.

“Again, I am sorry. I am really trying not to be evasive, but the second HMRC study is going to be really key to this particular question. It is a question that we are considering very carefully. You could argue that one of the benefits of this dual purpose is that it is very flexible. You may have a situation where som…”

“We would be very interested in your views as a Committee on that, given what you have heard.”

“Yes, I understand that.”

“It could be a long hour. The reason why your report and inquiry is timely is precisely that we are in the policy formation stage. If that is a disappointment to you, it should not be. The point of Select Committees is to influence Government policy. We will look at that alongside the other characteristics of the LISA. …”

“They could not until 2037 because they have to be 60. I do not know whether you are going to put a few more pennies in.”

“No, you do not look like you are, but I do not know whether you will have a few more pennies in there before you are 60. I do not know. It is very difficult for us to evaluate, even in phase 2 of the study.”

“We have heard concerns expressed in your Committee and we have correspondence about some of the rules around withdrawal. You are absolutely right. You have got to the point that I was going to make about this. Any changes that could be made to perhaps improve that situation would cost money, and you would have to get t…”

“I will give you a few stats to build on what you have said. We know that about 6% of those eligible to take out a LISA have taken one out. You have to be between the ages of 18 and 40—I am not in that category, Mr Dean, I do admit. However, 9% of first-time buyers have used it since its introduction in 2017. In the ear…”

“I personally have not looked at those comparisons. We are not into the detail on that.”

“It will also look at the tax bracket that the individual is in. It will not give you the income of their parents.”

“We also have help to save, don’t forget. There are other savings products that are targeted at those on low incomes. We can talk about this as well. In the autumn Budget, we announced an extension of help to save to all universal credit claimants. To be fair to the people who designed this product, it is quite difficul…”

“Yes, but there are others for the self-employed. Certainly when I was Pensions Minister, I was very concerned about the low level of savings of the self-employed. The LISA is a vehicle that self-employed people could use. There are also SIPPs and other vehicles that self-employed people can use. It is true to say that …”

“That has been a very quiet but fantastic revolution in terms of the additional 11 million people now saving for a pension who previously were not. They are employed so they are saving for their pension through their payslips. That quiet revolution has not applied to those who are self-employed. That is a cause for conc…”

“Yes, I would be here all day. Laura also used to work at the DWP, so there we go.”

“According to the first HMRC study, people said that they found it straightforward to open the LISA and to use the LISA to fund the purchase of their home.”

“As I say, there were mixed views. There is some confusion about the withdrawal penalty. There is a 25% bonus, but when you withdraw you do not just lose the bonus; you lose 25% of the whole. I can see how that could be confusing to people. It is the provider’s responsibility, rather than the Government’s responsibility…”

“The truth is that I do not know because we have only the qualitative research so far. The providers have a responsibility to explain to those who are subscribing to the LISA what the rules are, what the terms and conditions are, and what will happen if they withdraw when they should not be withdrawing. Those rules shou…”

“The design of the policy should be as optimal as possible. Ultimately, the providers are responsible for ensuring that they are providing the right information to their consumers. They have a broader obligation now under the consumer duty to ensure that the consumer gets the best outcome. I admit that some of it is a l…”

“As I say, I did not design the product. This is a savings product with a dual purpose: its intended purpose is to help people save to buy a home and to help people save for retirement. If a withdrawal is made that does not comply with that intended purpose, it is quite normal that there should be a penalty, as is the c…”

“Yes. It is also because they are getting quite a healthy bonus from the Government. There has to be some quid pro quo. That is the deal, is it not? You get 25% on top of your investment. We cannot have a product that gives you 25% when there is no penalty for withdrawing from it if you are not complying with the intend…”