Speeches by Kane.

“Okay. Can I ask a couple of questions about governance? We have picked up on parts of this. I might be asking you questions that have already been answered, but I just want to do this for clarity. I know, James, that you have been talking about some of that and looking in at NS&I. Let’s talk about NS&I internally. Dax,…”

“Again, there are a lot of external factors, you are speaking to other people and taking advice, but a lot of the tensions or problems seem to come from an internal problem. What did you look at in terms of your own assumptions and approach to evaluating some of this information? Were you alive to the possibility that y…”

“It does. I have one point on a line in paragraph 20, which says, “there remains a lack of clarity about the role of boards, and NS&I staff think that decision-making can be slow and hierarchical.””

“What are you doing to ensure that the data exists to produce better cost data for your next business case?”

“How are you setting milestones for suppliers and working them into the plan, if that integrated plan is not quite there? How are you judging how suppliers are doing?”

“That was a really good example of good news, and possibly good news culture, in your answer. So can I put it to you that in that line they were talking about NS&I, and that there is a good news culture that is causing problems? And maybe I can just get you to reflect, if that is the case, on how you would take that, ho…”

“Moving on to something that is about information, paragraph 9 states, “Given the way NS&I report Programme performance, we found it challenging to identify spend to date, and forecast spend for the remainder of the Programme.” Matt, what are you doing to ensure that the programme produces the correct management informa…”

“And the milestones are all being met?”

“Very quickly, James, could you expand on the different steps of this interventionist model? What step are you at and what information do you need to decide whether to escalate further or de-escalate?”

“Lastly, we have talked about the difficulties you have with your workforce, your consultants and even the definitions. For 50 years, workforce, consultants and contingent labour have been the three parts. AI is now becoming an extra part of the workforce. You are bringing in an incredibly disruptive and powerful fourth…”

“Is the concept of AI as a potential form of consultancy going to complicate your mission to have a uniform definition of consultancy services? We have talked about AI as a technological solution. We have not really talked about AI in any of these sessions as a consultancy solution. I suppose this is the place to explor…”

“Maybe we are going to build our own AI models or software platforms. If you are bringing in Microsoft or any of these other companies and buying in AI, is there a difference between buying in an AI service and buying in a consultant? Will AI become, in effect, a consultant, as we would see it expressed in your playbook…”

“I am just trying to get to the bones of it. If I was one of your big consultancy firms, I would be doing everything I could to put into my contract that you are not able to use my data to get rid of me in the future by automating it through AI. There is potentially an in-built protection for consultants in a way that i…”

“It is more about whether you are evaluating the potential productivity gains from AI in staff, consultants and contingent labour. If AI is not being used to make gains across the board, one part of the workforce could bear a bigger brunt than another as we go forward. You might have to get back to us on this one. I wou…”

“I want to talk about AI for a minute. We have talked a huge amount with you about this gap in many different ways. The NAO Report, Use of artificial intelligence in Government, from autumn 2023, said that the Central Data and Digital Office “estimated the opportunity for productivity gains by analysing the types of tas…”

“Can I ask a quick follow-up on contingent labour? I am recalling a question that we asked of the BBC director general when it came to using freelancers and other things. When you are looking at reducing the workforce because of AI, you are going to be able to look at this across consultants, permanent staff and freelan…”

“You are talking to them, so if someone has come in on a freelance basis, you would give them the same opportunities to feed back on how they are feeling as you would to any other staff member?”

“I would probably leave you with the observation that I absolutely get that you and others will be confident within the Department. I am less confident that the NAO is going to be, based on the language that is being used and also the line of questioning. It is more of an observation that it is important that we all hav…”

“As a final point from me, considering all of the variances between all of this data and this approach, you have indicated that you are confident that you will know when you are going to meet your targets to halve the spend. Are you confident that the NAO is going to agree with you? Are you confident that this Committee…”

“When will you have it fixed? How long will that take? I am pushing this a little because it is unusual for me, when I hear these discussions, to feel like I am not getting to an answer. I am getting that you are aware of the problem. You have raised it repeatedly with different Departments, and they are either not gett…”