Speeches by Dean.

“Dr Cribb, I do not know whether you want to come in on this. The data available is from 2017. I am conscious of what you said about how policymakers are impatient. Do you think we have enough data yet to make assessments about the behavioural change caused by this policy?”

“I would like to declare that I have a family member who works for Save the Children.”

“Thinking back to my question, I think I have worked out that it has not had much effect on birth rates and it has not had much effect on employment rates. The final stated policy intention is the effect on the welfare bill. Obviously, it will cost money to restore it, but is there any evidence that it has helped to red…”

“No. I put the question because it is another argument made, and I just want to make sure that we flesh them all out today. I want to move on to employment, because that is the other end of it. Maybe people would decide to work more if they could. If one parent is not in work, perhaps they might want to start working. I…”

“If you accept the evidence we have heard from the panel today, then that makes complete sense.”

“Okay. My next question is about whether the policy makes sense for the country’s finances. Chris Coghlan mentioned one end of the scale, but the other is that we have a declining birth rate in this country and the OBR highlights the UK’s ageing demography as one of our central challenges. Dr Cribb, does it make sense t…”

“Can I press you on that? It is one of the primary arguments made at the moment; even in politics today, people are saying that parents need to take more responsibility. I admit that this would be a smaller sample, but what about people who have had a third child and then become aware of the cap? Does that affect their …”

“There is an exception for that.”

“You said that you were speaking to people who had the child. By definition, they are probably more likely to have been less aware of the impacts and not considered them. Do we have any broader evidence of general awareness, and whether people have decided not to have children on the basis of the fact that they have wor…”

“Yes.”

“Professor Stewart, one of the justifications for the two-child limit when it was introduced was making sure that parents are more financially responsible and perhaps choose not to have more children. Have we had any evidence since 2017 that that has impacted parents’ decision making?”

“Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?”

“Mr Hodgson, we spoke earlier—I think you were in the room for this—about how 75% of UK betting takes place with bookmakers registered in Gibraltar. Can you explain that for us?”

“That is where your profits come from. Just to be really clear, my point is not about the proportion of your overall gamblers, but about the proportion of where most of your profits come from. The figure I have here is that 60% of industry profits come from 5% of customers, so we are not talking about the population as …”

“So they are in Gibraltar because of a historical relationship and it being a centre of excellence. They obviously pay no VAT and a lower rate of corporation tax. Has that got anything to do with it?”

“Mr Kenny, I would like to talk about Gibraltar. I have seen a statistic that says that 75% of UK online betting takes place from Gibraltar. Can you explain that?”

“You have already alluded to the wide range of tools that you can use to tackle the black market, whether it is blocking payments, blocking domains or doing something with licences. Your argument that the tax increase will drive people over there does not seem to stack up, particularly given the evidence that we heard f…”

“I asked those questions because we are looking to tax the harm that I think you accept does happen in the gambling industry. People do suffer harm in the gambling industry; that is why you take measures to try and tackle that harm. I guess the Government’s assessment is “Where is that harm still happening? Do we need t…”

“Okay. You do not recognise those statistics.”

“I am going to take that as a yes. Basically, the industry has made quite a lot of profit, and quite a lot of it in recent years has been driven by online gambling. This brings me to the point I really want to come to. You said earlier that the vast majority of your customers enjoy gambling responsibly, enjoy a flutter …”