Speeches by Gardiner.

“In practice, what is the difference between a highly protected marine area and a protected marine area?”

“Well, indeed.”

“I totally agree with you. What are the strategies, though, that we could be recommending? Let me ask this in another way. What does the H stand for?”

“I asked what management strategies we could adopt within our marine protected areas that would effectively protect them. I made reference to the fact that so much of our MPAs is, at the moment, subject to bottom trawling and to dredging. I asked you to give recommendations, perhaps, that this Committee might make to Go…”

“Can I ask you to focus on the strategies that we could take, and with specific reference to the ones that I have mentioned, in terms of protecting our MPAs?”

“They are more likely to take it from people like yourself than they are from people like us.”

“Certainly, natural capital is something that this Committee is desperately interested in, and it would be very good to have that from you. I would like to ask you to turn your attention to the management strategies that could ensure that our MPAs were more than paper parks, and that they were actually adequately protec…”

“Absolutely. You are here as scientists. That is why you are here, and that is what we respect. Thank you. WWF published its ocean report saying that the potential impact of climate change on the oceans amounted to $8.4 trillion. Is that a figure that you recognise? Are there other ways that you would like to express th…”

“Could I say that you would agree that one of the recommendations that this Committee might profitably make would be for the Government to adopt a whole-site approach to marine protected areas, rather than simply looking at specific features?”

“Let me try a different tack, because I am trying to get some meaty recommendations out of you. Let us look at the likely impacts of climate change on the features in our MPAs. Let me start with a preliminary question. Do you consider as a scientist that looking at our MPAs from the point of view of their features, rath…”

“Let us talk about those. I am sorry, but we have limited time, and I am keen that we press on to some of the recommendations that you would like to see this Committee make in its report to Government, because that is what our session today is all about. You mentioned earlier in your response to one of my colleagues tha…”

“Are you surprised, Dr Schratzberger, that the Government have not fulfilled the commitment that, by the end of last year, they would have completed the process of introducing the additional protections that they were going to in the marine protected areas that have not had those apply to them? I cannot remember the exa…”

“In other words, what you are actually doing is putting a seal of guarantee on a line on a map, but what most people in the international community, and most of our constituents, think we are doing when we sign a treaty that says 30 by 30—it says 30% will be protected—is actually protecting them. Now, I am a huge believ…”

“Professor Barnes, I will try to pick up what you have said and something that Professor Webb said earlier. Under the interstate dispute settlement procedures, do any of our treaty commitments—by that I do not just mean marine treaties—enable a company or a commercial interest to take the UK to court under an ISDS proce…”

“The answer is no, isn’t it?”

“If you look at the last marine strategic framework, I think you will find that, according to the science, you had set 15 indicators. They included metrics for birds, fish, commercial fish, pelagic habitats, benthic habitats, food webs, seals and crustaceans. Eleven of those 15 were found to be in poor condition.”

“The answer is no, isn’t it?”

“Is it not ratified by the United States?”

“Thank you very much. Sorry to interrupt.”

“Therefore, would it be something that you might see this Committee making a recommendation about in terms of restricting the way that we allow ISDS mechanisms to be incorporated in treaties that we conclude?”