Speeches by Gardiner.

“I think there are some great recommendations for us there.”

“A simplified and holistic view?”

“The MMO, the Marine Management Organisation, was supposed to be completing stages 3 and 4 of the review on destructive activities, namely bottom trawling and dredging, as we were talking about. That was supposed to come in when? When should it have been done by?”

“I loved that last analogy that you used about farming and soil structure, and what you said about the whole sedimentary ecosystem. Has any work been done on trying to calculate the natural capital value of the sedimentary system that you were talking about? In your earlier remarks, you said it was about a metre where a…”

“You talked about the Crown Estate, and they are trying to balance these very complex choices. On the one side, there are clear economic metrics, and on the other side, you were telling us that there are very uncertain biological metrics, but they have huge monetary implications. It is very difficult to quantify them. I…”

“What we have not signed up for is what protection means. We signed up to protecting 30%, but as we heard from the earlier panel, what that means in practice is not clear. It is not clear exactly what level of protection is being put in place. I want to talk to you about baselines. We have all heard the analogy about cl…”

“There is a lack of good quality data.”

“If we are thinking about our management of the seabed today, how likely is it, because of that lack of good quality data, that we could be facilitating damage to the ecosystem because we do not have the data to demonstrate it?”

“Why has the MMO not yet proceeded to stage 3 and 4?”

“If we turn to the Indian overseas territories and the Chagos biome—the marine biome—we know that there will be pressure on fisheries in that area, because the enforcement that we have already has shown that there is encroachment by fishing.”

“Let me ask this question to get us a bit more specific. It is my final question, I promise. With the Indian overseas territories marine biome, how confident or how concerned is the scientific community that the level of enforcement under Mauritian sovereignty will be able to combat the pressures of illegal fishing in t…”

“Indeed. Under the putative agreement, who will pay for the enforcement of that in the future to ensure that those pressures do not increase?”

“Indeed. Under the putative agreement, who will pay for the enforcement of that in the future to ensure that those pressures do not increase?”

“Indeed, such that the local fishermen have been amazed at just how quickly it has recovered. I wanted to push back gently against the idea that you will not see anything for 50 years.”

“We are only talking about a maximum of 10% of the English waters, are we not? That is what the Benyon review recommended. If we are talking about establishing that, it leaves you 90% for our balanced approach, which I wholly support.”

“Indeed, such that the local fishermen have been amazed at just how quickly it has recovered. I wanted to push back gently against the idea that you will not see anything for 50 years.”

“Yes, but there has been a marked improvement in a period as small as five years, has there not?”

“You talked about the extent of the time that it took for areas to recover once destructive activity such as bottom trawling had ceased. Can you recall how long it took for Lyme Bay to recover?”

“Stages 3 and 4 should have been done by the end of last year. Do we have any update on when we are expecting that? In that case, would you like to see this Committee make a recommendation that they get on with the job?”

“You both are.”